“Swamp Kings” on Netflix released

[Detroitgator]

I don't know if anyone else caught it but they interviewed a player in the third episode, Carl Johnson. He said something along the lines of he "beat people up and he would never tell kids to do that". I wasnt familiar with him, and he looked so effeminate and defeated that I had to look him up.

Apparently he beat up his girlfriend too while a player. He looked much more aggressive back then. It's seems like he's matured and feels bad about things he's done in his life but he made it seem like Meyer was at fault. It was just slipped in there and it jumped out at me that they let that fly with no explanation.

I mean Siler was like.. "so I punched him in the face" and then grinned like a kid at christmas. He owned it and didn't blame anyone.

Yeah, I caught that too... especially paid attention the minute he started talking about things he wasn't proud of, didn't want his kids to know or do.

This is the other thing I thought about while watching the episodes and because I had already read the Part I (and I think II) articles. Those articles talked about the specific type of players Napier seems to be targeting for recruitment: talented players that are leaders with character (additionally, there have been LOTS of articles about him trying to get kids from stable homes, whether single or dual parent). Swamp Kings had me comparing that to Meyers' teams. Meyers was obviously recruiting HIGHLY talented players, but it also seems that there was a liberal amount of looking for kids from broken homes that had outsized aggression that he hoped to harness on the field... and he did, to an extent, but it spilled OFF the field (and in the locker room) too.

I've been saying this for the better part of a decade now, but this is where ANY current or future UF HC is going to have a problem. UF admin flat out wouldn't allow the last couple of coaches to bring "Meyers type" kids in (even if they'd cleared NCAA), and with Napier, I think he's clearly dismissing 4* and 5* talent that other schools like UGA are still fine with letting in to their esteemed institution of higher learning.

 

[TLB]

Wateched all 4 episodes with wife (also UF grad) and son* (14, all sport kinda kid). We had to watch 2, wait a day and finish the other 2.

When we stopped after the first two, the wife was all worked up on the couch asking me over and over when do we start this season. She got really pumped thru it. Son also was itching for NCAAF to get here. Me? I had forgotten a lot of things, and this was really well done, IMO. It showed the build up, the pressure everyone was under, the focus, the coming to terms with 18-19 yo men on their own and becoming (treated like) kings.

Second two showed the cracks, the faults and breakdowns that were overcome for 2008 and what could/should have been for 2009. Again, fairly well done. Avoided most of the dirt, and focuses on what it took to become champions, and what that meant afterward.


From reading this thread, I thought they then looked into Napier and what he's trying to do - not so. All footage within the episodes focused on the players and coaches '06-'09. I'm glad they stuck to only that scope. It was great to see the interviews with some of the players. A lot more they could have talked to, but I'm satsified.




*Son said Tebow sounded like he was telling bedtime stories his voice was so soft and quiet. He was right.

 

[Detroitgator]

From reading this thread, I thought they then looked into Napier and what he's trying to do - not so.

I think that's because several of us (me anyway) were mixing the topics of Swamp Kings with the two part article thread talking about what was bad about Mullen and staff, and what Napier is trying to do now.

There are a lot of quotes by the kids today in those articles about what is important today (that has been lacking) that give a glimmer of hope to what was important to the team/players/locker room back then.

 

[revgator]

*Son said Tebow sounded like he was telling bedtime stories his voice was so soft and quiet. He was right.

I thought similar, his public speaking is very much improved. He used to just have that "jock-speak" but he's really become much more engaging.

 

[revgator]

This is the other thing I thought about while watching the episodes and because I had already read the Part I (and I think II) articles. Those articles talked about the specific type of players Napier seems to be targeting for recruitment: talented players that are leaders with character (additionally, there have been LOTS of articles about him trying to get kids from stable homes, whether single or dual parent). Swamp Kings had me comparing that to Meyers' teams. Meyers was obviously recruiting HIGHLY talented players, but it also seems that there was a liberal amount of looking for kids from broken homes that had outsized aggression that he hoped to harness on the field... and he did, to an extent, but it spilled OFF the field (and in the locker room) too.

I gave this a like already but this observation is brilliant and has been on my mind.

I'll give kudos to Billy here because I think he has one up on Urban here. Urban was looking for killer instinct whereas Billy is looking for the same desire but much more controlled and untapped. Urbans was volatile whereas Billy's is more foundational.

Plus these are the kind of kids that could give Billy a few bucks for a shave or blanket if it's raining outside.

 

[Gatordiddy]

the wife was all worked up on the couch

 

[Gatordiddy]

But seriously

I watched the first two episodes-
Brandon Siler is my new favorite Gator.
THAT is commitment to a program

 

[78]

I'm three episodes in and enjoying it. Yes, it's Meyercentric in its approach and it needs to be. He's the central character.

One of the key angles is Meyer entering the situation with a limited background with minority athletes from underprivileged backgrounds and struggling to understand. He needs a lieutenant to help deliver his message, to help enforce it and to seek occasional counsel. He finds it in Brandon Siler.

When Siler left the team, his leadership absence was noticeable. As much as Spikes tried to assume that role, he wasn't the same leader. Siler was the glue that kept everyone in line.

What also comes through is how pitiful Mullen is as someone the players could look up to. He might as well have been one of them. His air of authority was a big fat zero.

I almost forgot how laser intense Meyer was and how singularly focused he was on the goal at hand. He was deathly afraid of losing -- Brandon James said it drove him more than winning -- and willing to do whatever necessary to avoid it.

I'm not sure we'll ever see another coach with that degree of focus and intensity. It's what made him great and what made him vulnerable.

 

[jdh5484]

Plus these are the kind of kids that could give Billy a few bucks for a shave or blanket if it's raining outside.

Nailed it.

 

[Detroitgator]

I'm three episodes in and enjoying it. Yes, it's Meyercentric in its approach and it needs to be. He's the central character.

One of the key angles is Meyer entering the situation with a limited background with minority athletes from underprivileged backgrounds and struggling to understand. He needs a lieutenant to help deliver his message, to help enforce it and to seek occasional counsel. He finds it in Brandon Siler.

When Siler left the team, his leadership absence was noticeable. As much as Spikes tried to assume that role, he wasn't the same leader. Siler was the glue that kept everyone in line.

What also comes through is how pitiful Mullen is as someone the players could look up to. He might as well have been one of them. His air of authority was a big fat zero.

I almost forgot how laser intense Meyer was and how singularly focused he was on the goal at hand. He was deathly afraid of losing -- Brandon James said it drove him more than winning -- and willing to do whatever necessary to avoid it.

I'm not sure we'll ever see another coach with that degree of focus and intensity. It's what made him great and what made him vulnerable.

Mannn... those first two paragraphs had you sounding like every douchebag "critic" on IMDB!!! Then you recovered...

 

[jdh5484]

Yeah, I caught that too... especially paid attention the minute he started talking about things he wasn't proud of, didn't want his kids to know or do.

This is the other thing I thought about while watching the episodes and because I had already read the Part I (and I think II) articles. Those articles talked about the specific type of players Napier seems to be targeting for recruitment: talented players that are leaders with character (additionally, there have been LOTS of articles about him trying to get kids from stable homes, whether single or dual parent). Swamp Kings had me comparing that to Meyers' teams. Meyers was obviously recruiting HIGHLY talented players, but it also seems that there was a liberal amount of looking for kids from broken homes that had outsized aggression that he hoped to harness on the field... and he did, to an extent, but it spilled OFF the field (and in the locker room) too.

I've been saying this for the better part of a decade now, but this is where ANY current or future UF HC is going to have a problem. UF admin flat out wouldn't allow the last couple of coaches to bring "Meyers type" kids in (even if they'd cleared NCAA), and with Napier, I think he's clearly dismissing 4* and 5* talent that other schools like UGA are still fine with letting in to their esteemed institution of higher learning.

Howard Schnellenberger was the first coach in Florida to go into the "bad" neighborhoods and embrace/harness that toughness. They had some pretty good runs.

Tom Osborn did the same at Nebraska.

Meyer is not unique in that. I just think he wasn't very good at holding it together. (Compare/contrast to the players at Utah and Bowling Green)

The key is finding the right mix of individual volatility/meanness and focusing it on the field. This is still football, spelling bee champs and choir boys won't get us past the Vandys of the world.

 

[jdh5484]

I'm three episodes in and enjoying it. Yes, it's Meyercentric in its approach and it needs to be. He's the central character.

One of the key angles is Meyer entering the situation with a limited background with minority athletes from underprivileged backgrounds and struggling to understand. He needs a lieutenant to help deliver his message, to help enforce it and to seek occasional counsel. He finds it in Brandon Siler.

When Siler left the team, his leadership absence was noticeable. As much as Spikes tried to assume that role, he wasn't the same leader. Siler was the glue that kept everyone in line.

What also comes through is how pitiful Mullen is as someone the players could look up to. He might as well have been one of them. His air of authority was a big fat zero.

I almost forgot how laser intense Meyer was and how singularly focused he was on the goal at hand. He was deathly afraid of losing -- Brandon James said it drove him more than winning -- and willing to do whatever necessary to avoid it.

I'm not sure we'll ever see another coach with that degree of focus and intensity. It's what made him great and what made him vulnerable.

Siler has always been one of my favorite LBs. He was a team leader. Great run stopper and decent in coverage for a big guy... quick feet. Very sharp.

 

[Detroitgator]

Howard Schnellenberger was the first coach in Florida to go into the "bad" neighborhoods and embrace/harness that toughness. They had some pretty good runs.

Tom Osborn did the same at Nebraska.

Meyer is not unique in that. I just think he wasn't very good at holding it together.

The key is finding the right mix of individual volatility/meanness and focusing it on the field. This is still football, spelling bee champs and choir boys won't get us past the Vandys of the world.

Agreed... and i've always felt that in the end, Osborn sold his soul and reputation for those last couple of years with the issues he let go in the name of winning... and they haven't been the same since. We've been more relevant in the last 10 years than Nebraska has since he left.

 

[jdh5484]

Agreed... and i've always felt that in the end, Osborn sold his soul and reputation for those last couple of years with the issues he let go in the name of winning... and they haven't been the same since. We've been more relevant in the last 10 years than Nebraska has since he left.

Got to admit... that 95 Nebraska team was like the terminator of college football.

 

[Okeechobee Joe]

I know a lot of coaches who have won championships have been very ruthless in their commitment to winning. They would run a lot of players off. I'm thinking her of coaches like Bear Bryant, Woody Hayes, Urban Meyer etc. As Nick Saban said, "This (football program at Alabama) is not for everybody."

In "Swamp Kings" it was brought out, and we heard it before, that Meyer treated his best players differently than his other players. Now all coaches probably do this to some extent, but with Meyer it was extremely demarcated. During Meyer's regime the best players would be served steaks at tables with linens while the others would have to go get their own hamburgers and hotdogs to eat. This was a belittling of a lot of players. Things like this created a star mentality with a deep line of demarcation drawn between the "bigs" and the "littles". Ultimately it was one of the things that led to Meyer's downfall as he lost control of his team. Some of his "star" players became too big for their britches and the inmates started running the asylum.

I don't see Billy Napier doing stuff like Meyer did. Napier seems to want to respect every players and he seems careful in selecting the type of players he will bring into the program. In this way he reminds me of a Ray Graves who looked to build character in his players. As Graves' mentor, Bobby Dodd, the legendary coach at Georgia Tech, who famously said, "You (Mom and Dad) send me a good boy to Tech and I'll send you a better boy back home".

Graves and Dodd were like fathers to their players most of whom came from good homes. It was a different time. I see some of that in Napier who likes to talk about the families his players come out of. But we have also seen that BN will dismiss players from the team it they are not upholding their end of the bargain. Napier is a good coach, a good man, and a person of high character. No doubt he would be a success at some programs and he has already done that at Louisiana. Can he achieve that on the big stage at Florida? He's going to have to start winning some games.

 

[78]

Mannn... those first two paragraphs had you sounding like every douchebag "critic" on IMDB!!! Then you recovered...

My only defense is that I had to Google IMDB after reading your post.

 

[soflagator]

Agreed... and i've always felt that in the end, Osborn sold his soul and reputation for those last couple of years with the issues he let go in the name of winning... and they haven't been the same since. We've been more relevant in the last 10 years than Nebraska has since he left.

I think the ground was also shifting beneath them. They’d dominated by owning Texas recruiting while UT and Ou were down. Their cyclical rise was always going to hit Nebraska. Plus they went through a remarkably bad stretch of coaching hires, similar to us. But where they actually have a worse story is they fired a NC winner who had them in the title game twice in his first five years. At least we were forced to hire someone when we landed the chimp.

 

[Detroitgator]

I think the ground was also shifting beneath them. They’d dominated by owning Texas recruiting while UT and Ou were down. Their cyclical rise was always going to hit Nebraska. Plus they went through a remarkably bad stretch of coaching hires, similar to us. But where they actually have a worse story is they fired a NC winner who had them in the title game twice in his first five years. At least we were forced to hire someone when we landed the chimp.

On the coaching thing, I lost all respect for Osborn after all the things that came out about player issues.. zero respect given for his career.

My issue isn't "thug coaching/programs," it's with hypocrites. I mean I hated (still do) all the Miami teams and their thug coaches, but never thought of any of them as anything but that.

It's coaches like Osborn and especially that douchebag Bill McCartney... Mr. "Jesus/Promise Keepers" who openly used the death of his QB (and daughter's boyfriend/fiance I think) to motivate the team for a season and half and then the whole "5th Down" win debacle. F him.

 

[AlexDaGator]

On the coaching thing, I lost all respect for Osborn after all the things that came out about player issues.. zero respect given for his career.

My issue isn't "thug coaching/programs," it's with hypocrites. I mean I hated (still do) all the Miami teams and their thug coaches, but never thought of any of them as anything but that.

It's coaches like Osborn and especially that douchebag Bill McCartney... Mr. "Jesus/Promise Keepers" who openly used the death of his QB (and daughter's boyfriend/fiance I think) to motivate the team for a season and half and then the whole "5th Down" win debacle. F him.

In addition to the behavior issues with those Nebraska teams, there was systematic steroid abuse going on.


Alex.

 

[Gator By Marriage]

Finally finished watching the series the other night. While I enjoyed it, it did seem like it was all about absolving Urbs of his sins. They clearly had to cut quite a bit out to make it fit into four episodes. They easily could have made a six part series. I really enjoyed the interviews with Brandon Siler, Ahmad Black, and Major Wright. Those are entertaining guys in addition to being great football players.

Matt Hayes of SDS did not have as generous a take:

Hayes: Swamp Kings: The sports washing of Urban Meyer

The new Netflix documentary on the Urban Meyer years paints a far different picture than the seedy reality of what really happened.

www.saturdaydownsouth.com