Can you be an Elite Academic Institution and be an Elite Football Program?

Discussion in 'Main Sports Forum' started by NOLAGATOR, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. Tay Bang

    Tay Bang I might have been mean to Byrd
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    Great thread CR!

    The only team in the final AP rankings in the top 25 that I would call "elite" academically is Notre Dame. Stanford is at 27 if counting the votes. Of course I'm not looking at historical rankings at the moment.

    I do not consider UF "elite" academically. Nor UM.
     
    #21 Tay Bang, Jan 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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    • Gator By Marriage

      Gator By Marriage A convert to Gatorism
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      Really the only schools that could check all three boxes would be Stanford and Notre Dame. All the others that are potentially elite programs have a large number of alums. I said potentially, because as was noted above, there's really only two elite football programs at the moment.
       
    • Tay Bang

      Tay Bang I might have been mean to Byrd
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      Apples and oranges. GT equals engineering. UGA covers the rest. Small pond vs big pond.

      GT is rated #4 among ALL schools for engineering. Which is what it does. I would call GT an elite engineering school. I would not call UGA an elite school.

      One other thing is I suspect GT student's English scores lag behind UGA's, dragging down the overall standardized testing scores.
       
      #23 Tay Bang, Jan 10, 2019
      Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
      • GR8 2B

        GR8 2B A Florida Gator
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        13 of the top 20 football schools last year were also top 20 academically. That would seem to answer the question posed in this thread, assuming that top 20 constitutes "elite".
         
        • NOLAGATOR

          NOLAGATOR Deep Behind Enemy Lines
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          So, Finishing Top 20 is an Elite football program? That's not the standard that was used when Mullen was hired. So MSU was Elite?
           
        • GR8 2B

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          Not saying it does or doesn't. I see arguments both ways. Is the top 20 out of, what, 135 schools, "elite"? Arguably yes, but also arguably no. Does "top 20" match up with the Gator Standard? No. Does "top 20" match up with the standard used when Mullen was hired? I would say no, but not sure what specific standard you're referring to with regard to that used when Mullen was hired.

          Edit: I don't see MSU on the list.
           
        • AnObfuscator

          AnObfuscator Well-Known Member
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          The thing to keep in mind is that the odds of being academically elite are, by definition, rare. And the odds of being athletically elite are, by definition, rare.

          So even if there is no causal link between being athletically and academically elite, then we would still expect schools that are both to be extremely rare.

          So it shouldn't be surprising or concerning that there aren't many schools that manage to be both.
           
          • NOLAGATOR

            NOLAGATOR Deep Behind Enemy Lines
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            So, if you had to choose, should UF be academically elite or a football power house?
             
            • Tay Bang

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              Ok. Here's a listing of the somewhat average football rankings since 1936.

              Notre Dame and GT are the only schools in the Top 25, with GT tied for 25th that I consider "elite" academically.

              That's my final answer. Notre Dame for sure. GT a distant runner-up.

              College Poll Archive (1936 to present)
              Home | Football | Men's BB | Women's BB | Flashback | Credits | Contact
              Football

              FB Home | Last Poll | Team Index | Seasons[​IMG]

              -
              Total Appearances in the AP Poll
              Rk Team App* Pct* Avg Rk High Rk
              1. Ohio State 902 78.4% 8.3 1
              2. Michigan 849 73.8% 9.3 1
              3. Oklahoma 830 72.1% 7.7 1
              4. Notre Dame 799 69.4% 8.4 1
              5. Alabama 791 68.7% 7.5 1
              6. USC 767 66.6% 9.2 1
              7. Nebraska 728 63.2% 8.2 1
              8. Texas 720 62.6% 9.0 1
              9. Penn State 630 54.7% 10.0 1
              10. LSU 617 53.6% 11.0 1
              11. Florida 600 52.1% 10.3 1
              12. Tennessee 582 50.6% 10.5 1
              13. Georgia 579 50.3% 11.1 1
              14. Auburn 566 49.2% 11.1 1
              15. Florida State 560 48.7% 8.6 1
              16. UCLA 532 46.2% 11.8 1
              17. Miami (FL) 490 42.6% 8.9 1
              18. Washington 447 38.8% 12.2 1
              19. Texas A&M 444 38.6% 12.5 1
              20. Clemson 435 37.8% 12.6 1
              21. Arkansas 417 36.2% 11.6 1
              22. Michigan State 398 34.6% 11.6 1
              23. Wisconsin 376 32.7% 13.0 1
              24. Iowa 318 27.6% 12.6 1
              25. Georgia Tech 306 26.6% 12.2 2
              West Virginia 306 26.6% 14.5 2
              27. Colorado 304 26.4% 11.8 1
              28. Virginia Tech 302 26.2% 13.6 2
              29. Stanford 301 26.2% 13.6 2
              30. Pittsburgh 297 25.8% 12.1 1
              31. Oregon 290 25.2% 11.7 1
              32. Mississippi 289 25.1% 12.2 1
              33. Arizona State 281 24.4% 14.5 2
              34. Missouri 253 22.0% 14.0 1
              35. North Carolina 245 21.3% 13.5 1
              36. BYU 244 21.2% 15.5 1
              37. TCU 242 21.0% 12.6 1
              38. Oklahoma State 240 20.9% 14.3 2
              39. Purdue 236 20.5% 13.0 1
              40. Kansas State 211 18.3% 12.9 2
              41. Syracuse 203 17.6% 13.9 1
              42. Mississippi State 202 17.5% 17.4 1
              43. Baylor 200 17.4% 13.0 2
              44. California 198 17.2% 12.1 1
              45. Houston 194 16.9% 13.6 2
              46. Maryland 192 16.7% 12.2 1
              47. South Carolina 187 16.2% 15.2 2
              48. Illinois 181 15.7% 12.3 2
              49. Northwestern 180 15.6% 13.2 1
              50. Duke 172 14.9% 13.3 2

              Total AP Football Poll Appearances Summary - College Poll Archive - Historical College Football and Basketball Polls and Rankings
               
            • AnObfuscator

              AnObfuscator Well-Known Member
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              Good question. I don't think we do have to choose, but if we *did* I would choose academically elite. I'm a software engineer with a CS degree from UF. Football is entertainment, whereas UF's academic reputation impacts my earnings potential.
               
              • NOLAGATOR

                NOLAGATOR Deep Behind Enemy Lines
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                I contend this New UF Adminstartion does not really care if we are #1 or #20 as long as we finish strong and are televised but they do want to compete with the IVY League Academically.

                And as for your degree...UF is a Land Grant University. They were to support Industry and Agriculture. I had to go to UGA to get research done and it was cheaper. UF is only one of two AG colleges in the state...OH but they are Elite.
                 
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                • Swamp Donkey

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                  Total Bs. Most schools exclude incoming students in special programs/diversity from the stats. At some schools, that may be half or more of the class.

                  Stats are stats. Easily manipulated.
                   
                  • Swamp Donkey

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                    1936?

                    :rolleyes4:
                     
                  • NOLAGATOR

                    NOLAGATOR Deep Behind Enemy Lines
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                    Donkey:

                    I had a UGA Prof tell me UGA is now harder to get into then GT as a Freshman. I had a freind of mine, who lives in ATL say the same thing - it was recently put out in the media.
                     
                    • AnObfuscator

                      AnObfuscator Well-Known Member
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                      UF spends far more on research overall than UGA. Maybe UGA just spent more on your particular field.

                      UF 2017 research spending: $801.4 million
                      UF research spending reaches record $801.4 million in 2017

                      UGA 2017 research spending: $410 million
                      UGA advances in national research ranking - UGA Today
                       
                      • GR8 2B

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                        I received my degree from UF, so, of course, I would choose academically elite. That would inure to my personal benefit, much more so than being a football powerhouse. Having said that, I'm glad I don't have to choose between the two. I want both.
                         
                        • rogdochar

                          rogdochar Senior Member
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                          All I know is that OSU graduates the worst statisticians on the national stage.
                           
                        • Tay Bang

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                          It's a scrong post and you know it...
                          :rolleyes4:
                           
                          #38 Tay Bang, Jan 10, 2019
                          Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
                        • Tay Bang

                          Tay Bang I might have been mean to Byrd
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                          UF is not elite academically. Very good, but not elite.
                           
                          • g8r.tom

                            g8r.tom Well-Known Member
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                            #8 isn't too bad. What is elite to you? Top 5?
                             

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