Fall Camp: Start Date Aug 17th

[GatorJ]

Stewart started at Star for the scrimmage.

 

[soflagator]

Stewart started at Star for the scrimmage.

Again, not being the scheme guy, do we not have the near perfect ingredients for a traditional SS/FS set up? Seems like Davis and Dean are prototypical Strongs while Stewart and a couple others fit the bill at Free. I don’t really get the Star part of things and would much rather just go standard defense. I honestly never cared to learn his scheme since I hated the TG hire and never thought he’d be here long. I could look it up I guess, but I’d rather hear it straight from you rubes.

 

[GatorJ]

Again, not being the scheme guy, do we not have the near perfect ingredients for a traditional SS/FS set up? Seems like Davis and Dean are prototypical Strongs while Stewart and a couple others fit the bill at Free. I don’t really get the Star part of things and would much rather just go standard defense. I honestly never cared to learn his scheme since I hated the TG hire and never thought he’d be here long. I could look it up I guess, but I’d rather hear it straight from you rubes.

mullen explained in something that I read somewhere that the star needs to be a “star”. He has to be an incredibly versatile athlete.

To my understanding it’s basically a linebacker/ safety hybrid. I’d assume to be able to allow defensive alignment changes without having to switch players. Facing these no huddle offenses means that defensive needs players cross trained into different positions. I’d think the reason would be similar to needing a buck. Buck stands up in 3-4 but has hand in the dirt on 4-3.

but @ltraz would know way better than me.

 

[soflagator]

mullen explained in something that I read somewhere that the star needs to be a “star”. He has to be an incredibly versatile athlete.

To my understanding it’s basically a linebacker/ safety hybrid. I’d assume to be able to allow defensive alignment changes without having to switch players. Facing these no huddle offenses means that defensive needs players cross trained into different positions. I’d think the reason would be similar to needing a buck. Buck stands up in 3-4 but has hand in the dirt on 4-3.

but @ltraz would know way better than me.

Thanks.

Seems like an unnecessary demand given that your offense already requires basically a “freak” to run it optimally. I also see it as something a smaller school would need to offset a talent disparity. To me, there’s no reason we can’t run a more traditional defense with UF talent available.

 

[gatorplank]

I’ve heard it explained this way:

Nickel and 4-3 are the exact same defensive scheme. The difference between them is personnel.

Star and Sam have identical position responsibilities. Saban wanted them to start with the same letter since they are interchangeable. You want a Sam in there when you have two TEs or a TE and a FB. When a TE/FB goes out and a WR comes in the Sam comes out of the game and the STAR goes in because the STAR is a SAM that can match up and cover a WR, while also still providing the same run game responsibilities the SAM would have.

As offenses have evolved the STAR has replaced the SAM in most base defenses because offenses are running 11 personnel instead of 12 or 21 personnel like they did 10 and 20 years ago.

 

[GatorJ]

Thanks.

Seems like an unnecessary demand given that your offense already requires basically a “freak” to run it optimally. I also see it as something a smaller school would need to offset a talent disparity. To me, there’s no reason we can’t run a more traditional defense with UF talent available.

Bama runs two DB/LB hybrids. The Money and the Star. They also run the Jack (I think). Which I think is similar to our Buck. At least I think it is. Here is some info on their DB hybrids:

Earlier this year, coach Nick Saban estimated that the Tide was in the 3-4 base only 20 percent of the time last season.


Most of the time, Alabama attacks an offense with its nickel package (five defensive backs) or dime (six DBs).


The extra defensive back in the nickel is called the “Star.” The sixth DB in the dime plays the “Money” position.


The terms for these important positions originated during Saban's days as the defensive coordinator with the Cleveland Browns and coach Bill Belichick, from 1991-94.


“In the old days, I called the fifth defensive back nickel back, and we never really played six defensive backs,” he said.


The middle linebacker (Mike) and the weak inside linebacker (Will) stayed in the game, and a defensive back replaced the strong outside linebacker (Sam).


“Well, when I went to Cleveland, everything that Bill Belichick does has some purpose, from what you call blitz to what you call fire-zone front,” Saban said.


“The Star really is the Sam, so he wanted an s-word for that position. When you put six guys in the game, whether it's a sub linebacker or a sixth defensive back, we had nickel, dime, dollar. Different money terms.”


The sixth defensive back takes the place of the weak inside linebacker.


“But when you talk to players, you can say, 'Look, these linebackers on the team are all going to play Money. These DBs on the team are going to learn how to play Money,'” Saban said.

Alabama defense 101: nickel = Star, dime = Money, DBs = LBs

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Bama runs two DB/LB hybrids. The Money and the Star. They also run the Jack (I think). Which I think is similar to our Buck. At least I think it is. Here is some info on their DB hybrids:

Alabama defense 101: nickel = Star, dime = Money, DBs = LBs

That is how most teams play the position but it isnt at all how Grantham does.

For us, "star" is just the third corner, or old school nickel as Itraz prefers to call it. Maybe a slightly heaviers safety (CGJ). But a safety type like Dean is usually not fluid enough to cover out there.

We also dont really play a strong safety at all. Dean, Burney those guys essentially have no position, other than third and long pass defense type LB.

Bama plays a lot of zone. We play almost none. Yes, Dean and Burney types (LB safety hybridish-- thkugh Dean is more true SS) might play star for Saban. But not for us. Burney ran there sime but despite his speed, he apparently doesnt have the hips for man coverage.

The safeties have to be small and essentially two more corners who can play man coverage in Man Zero or Man 1 that we usually play. (This means man coverage with zero safeties high or 1 safety high). We are probably the only team that blitzes 7 or 8 at times and having less DBs in man than there are receivers. Stiner's blitz to end the Cowbell game was one of these. One receiver was totally uncovered.

Our Rush isnt a Sabanesque Jack/Buck either. We almost always run a four man front and the Rush rushes. Saban uses Jack to flip between 4 and 3 man fronts at will without subbing. (This confuses the defense because the blocking assignments change completely w 3 (or 5) man front vs a 4 man front.) When he flips to 3-4, really any of the backers could blitz. Chimp, not sure if this is a personnel thing or not, would flip to 3-4 and still rush the Buck exlusively.

Our "Rush" (they mostly call it this now) does however lineup very wide on most plays, so much as to be basically useless in run defense, but it also gives him essentially a free path to the QB (unless they commit a back to chip him and give the tackle time to catchup, bc obviously a back isnt stopping a Rush End for long either). Chokin Dwag essentially gambles that he will get to the QB enough to put them in deep holes and that the blitzes will also blowup some of the runs. Honestly it would not be a terrible defense if paired with a very aggressive offense instead of a ball control/ clock control offense, and of it wasnt a fuchsing dwag running it.

 

[soflagator]

Bama runs two DB/LB hybrids. The Money and the Star. They also run the Jack (I think). Which I think is similar to our Buck. At least I think it is. Here is some info on their DB hybrids:



Alabama defense 101: nickel = Star, dime = Money, DBs = LBs

Thanks.

 

[GatorJ]

That is how most teams play the position but it isnt at all how Grantham does.

For us, "star" is just the third corner, or old school nickel as Itraz prefers to call it. Maybe a slightly heaviers safety (CGJ). But a safety type like Dean is usually not fluid enough to cover out there.

We also dont really play a strong safety at all. Dean, Burney those guys essentially have no position, other than third and long pass defense type LB.

Bama plays a lot of zone. We play almost none. Yes, Dean and Burney types (LB safety hybridish-- thkugh Dean is more true SS) might play star for Saban. But not for us. Burney ran there sime but despite his speed, he apparently doesnt have the hips for man coverage.

The safeties have to be small and essentially two more corners who can play man coverage in Man Zero or Man 1 that we usually play. (This means man coverage with zero safeties high or 1 safety high). We are probably the only team that blitzes 7 or 8 at times and having less DBs in man than there are receivers. Stiner's blitz to end the Cowbell game was one of these. One receiver was totally uncovered.

Our Rush isnt a Sabanesque Jack/Buck either. We almost always run a four man front and the Rush rushes. Saban uses Jack to flip between 4 and 3 man fronts at will without subbing. (This confuses the defense because the blocking assignments change completely w 3 (or 5) man front vs a 4 man front.) When he flips to 3-4, really any of the backers could blitz. Chimp, not sure if this is a personnel thing or not, would flip to 3-4 and still rush the Buck exlusively.

Our "Rush" (they mostly call it this now) does however lineup very wide on most plays, so much as to be basically useless in run defense, but it also gives him essentially a free path to the QB (unless they commit a back to chip him and give the tackle time to catchup, bc obviously a back isnt stopping a Rush End for long either). Chokin Dwag essentially gambles that he will get to the QB enough to put them in deep holes and that the blitzes will also blowup some of the runs. Honestly it would not be a terrible defense if paired with a very aggressive offense instead of a ball control/ clock control offense, and of it wasnt a fuchsing dwag running it.

Great post. It is very difficult to see intricacies of the defense during a game so I just assumed that it was run similarly. We really don’t have the beef to flip between 3-4 and 4-3. We’re probably still a year away from that.

I always figured that it was the zone that killed us on 3rd and Grantham. If we don’t play zone why are we constantly screwed on 3rd down. Was is it about his lineup that exposes us?

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Great post. It is very difficult to see intricacies of the defense during a game so I just assumed that it was run similarly. We really don’t have the beef to flip between 3-4 and 4-3. We’re probably still a year away from that.

I always figured that it was the zone that killed us on 3rd and Grantham. If we don’t play zone why are we constantly screwed on 3rd down. Was is it about his lineup that exposes us?

Grantham USED to run a very Sabanesque defense at Ugly, three heavies and some blitzers at the outside backer positions. Normally players at backer and safety.

This thing developed at Loovulle. It isnt really anyone else's defense. In a way, I attribute it to poor talent available there but he has continued.

Re zone on third down he sometimes switches to zone... or just runs another blitz man zero. Our personnel basically is what exposes us on third. If the other team runs a max protect, we are very vulnerable. No one can cover in man forever.

 

[G8trwood]

So both our schemes are predictable ?

;)

 

[JDW]

So both are schemes are predictable ?

;)

Soft zone blitz blitz soft zone...it’s like he keeps a song playing in his head

 

[Swamp Donkey]

So both our schemes are predictable ?

;)

It would be hard to get more predictable.

 

[Thick&ThinG8r]

I've always thought of Black as a LB but after reading all the post about our current scheme, he may be the star we've been looking for since Chauncey left.
Him combined with DT's with size and speed should give us a shut down defense instead of the bend but hopefully don't break unit we have now.
Of course it will be next year before we find that out.

 

[soflagator]

It would be hard to get more predictable.

I knew you were gonna say that.

 

[JDW]

It would be hard to get more predictable.

Pot meet Kettle

 

[I Have No Friends :(]

@ltraz - Mullen said that Lingard runs hard and catches great. He said his biggest weakness is playbook. Just needs to learn it.

If only something like a pandemic would've hit, imagine all the time Lingard would have had to study the playbook. Ah well, maybe next year.

 

[JDW]

If only something like a pandemic would've hit, imagine all the time Lingard would have had to study the playbook. Ah well, maybe next year.

He went to Miami willingly...not a Mensa candidate

 

[Swamp Donkey]

I've always thought of Black as a LB but after reading all the post about our current scheme

he has zero chance of playing star in our current defense.