Final Recruiting Class

[Since65]

I think T-Rex is concerned about the "mayday-mayday" dive our Gators took those
last 4 games.?.... and why Michigan players-coaches took that silly Orlando bowl
game so much more serious than our players-coaches.

I don't necessarily agree that the Gators mailed in their bowl game performance, or at least for the entire game. I would go back to the red zone interception just before halftime when the game was still close (14-7?). That was a back-breaker and took away whatever good mojo was in place up to that point. When Michigan put up points off of that turnover, well , then I think the game was over. The second half was just a formality.

If you do ever re-watch that game (not recommended) take note of the number of upperclassmen UM had on both lines of scrimmage (and at QB). Starting three TRUE freshman on the offensive line, as the Gators did, is a recipe for being dominated up front. I would maintain that, like it or not, UF coaches did use bowl preparation more for training purposes than as just another game to win.

 

[MJMGator]

Actually it's complete bull****. I was complimentary of Mac most of the year. Saturday's were fun again. Sorry I'm not making excuses for the guy after he falls for that fake FG. Everyone knew it was going to happen. Anyone gonna excuse that? And the blow outs were inexcusable.

He's not the first coach and he certainly won't be the last to fall prey to a well-timed fake. The blowouts were a direct effect of playing 3 of our toughest opponents without a functional QB.
That said, what do you propose? Typically, the term inexcusable means they need to be fired.

 

[T REX]

He's not the first coach and he certainly won't be the last to fall prey to a well-timed fake. The blowouts were a direct effect of playing 3 of our toughest opponents without a functional QB.
That said, what do you propose? Typically, the term inexcusable means they need to be fired.

I'm no where close to saying he needs to be fired but the shine is off last season. He'll get his 3 years to show he can coach em up. Mid-season everyone was thinking we had the next great one. He should get the same amount of criticism for the crap product he put on the field at the end of the season as he was complimented at the beginning. You don't just get to say he was great at the start and then excuse the rest of the year.

 

[ThreatMatrix]

Thought I was more polite when I pointed that out.

You were. I was channeling my inner Law.

 

[ATXGator]

You had to be one of those people that screamed Muschump was 11-1...he was 11-1 and said that loss to UL did not count

I didn't scream he was 11-1, but I also didn't put much stock in that game. Like I said... I consider bowl games completely meaningless unless they are a playoff game. I think generally you have one team that cares and one team that doesn't. Sometimes you get two teams that actually really care and you get a great game, but often one team is dejected because they didn't perform to expectations and another team is motivated to show something. A team like Michigan wanted to show they could beat up on the SEC. They get to come down to sunny Orlando and have fun. Florida had lost 2 in a row and lost a shot at the playoff and the SEC Championship game. The players really didn't have anything to play for. I was surprised we got killed, but not surprised we lost.

The bottom line is that there is no benefit to winning or losing a bowl game for the players... the game is an exhibition.

 

[TLB]

... and T-Rex, my discernment on that fake field goal is if the holder ain't holding
then he has to rise up off his knee before he catches the snap to be a passer or
runner, otherwise he's down when he received the snap.

If I recall, there was plenty of analysis done after the game and by all counts it was legal as it was run, unfortunately.

 

[WobbleGator]

The bottom line is that there is no benefit to winning or losing a playoff game for the players... the game is an exhibition.

So there is no benefit of making it to the championship game?

 

[TLB]

Actually it's complete bull****. I was complimentary of Mac most of the year. Saturday's were fun again. Sorry I'm not making excuses for the guy after he falls for that fake FG. Everyone knew it was going to happen. Anyone gonna excuse that? And the blow outs were inexcusable.

Can I ask why you can't hold a point of discussion? First you ask why a 'great coach' doesn't change the offensive plays around a backup QB becoming the starter. Many of us have argued why the plays are called to fit not a single player but the entire offense's capabilities and limitations. So then you switch to asking if anyone's seen a Saban team fold on him like ours did, presumably because you believe guys that win multiple national championships like him are too great a coach for that too happen - my presumption, so please correct me if I interpreted it wrong. And when people point out it has happened several times, you throw out the wild statement of having to win 100 MNCs for a bowl game to not count. Not much substance there as nobody (besides AL) have 100 MNCs, but many, many, many teams have failed to show up for bowl games. Owning recruiting? There are only a handful of teams (noting AL as the exception) that are in the top 5-10 annually, and even then it cycles on who those teams are atop the recruiting ranks. Being in the top isn't a guarantee of success either, see Muschamp as a prime example. However, Mac took us from 100 to t20 last year with a small window and has us in the t10 now a few days from NSD and has a good inside track on next year. How many years will he need to be in the top, and at what rank, to be considered 'owning' recruiting? And how will that change as it relates to success on the field, because again, WM proved the two don't correlate. Then you switch to this...

I'm no where close to saying he needs to be fired but the shine is off last season. He'll get his 3 years to show he can coach em up. Mid-season everyone was thinking we had the next great one. He should get the same amount of criticism for the crap product he put on the field at the end of the season as he was complimented at the beginning. You don't just get to say he was great at the start and then excuse the rest of the year.

Unexcusable, or Inexcusable, whichever you choose to use means that there is no reason for the failure at the end of the season. Nobody is arguing it isn't a failure and that the shine is off from last season. But let me ask you this, mid-season before WG pulls a dumbass move, were we not a LOT better than expected? Mac should get credit. End of the season he is dealing with a QB that can't perform, and that's his best option, and we get killed. That is his fault? Could he control the QB depth, or the ability of those backups?

Let me put it to you this way, pretend you show up for walk on tryouts in basketball as an unknown. Suddenly your blocking shots and laying down dunks. You are well beyond what we expected of you. But then you break your leg. Is it inexcusable that you are no longer performing as you did before? That's what he was facing, going from a QB with a (football, not common sense) brain and an arm to a QB lacking both of those qualities. And you expect him to have the team perform as well as before? It simply isn't possible.

I'm not going to provide a qualifier saying obtaining certain wins, or only losing by a certain margin, would have made the end of the season acceptable - it was utterly fugly. However, there's only so much he could do with what he had. 2016 when he has his recruits (granted only 1-2 yrs worth of his recruits), you can complain a bit more that he either brought in kids without the brains or skills to perform, or that he didn't bring in enough for depth where needed, and maybe to a degree that the kids aren't getting the coaching they need (it takes time to break habits and build new ones). But 2015? He was working mostly with the hand he was dealt, and it was a bad hand.

 

[ATXGator]

So there is no benefit of making it to the championship game?

Sorry... meant a bowl game... I'll fix it

 

[TheDouglas78]

If you are not in a BCS game or a playoff game it's just an exhibition game. The BCS and playoff games are more high profile and matter a bit more. Obviously the playoff games offer even more exposure and status than the BCS games.

 

[divits]

Actually it's complete bull****.

Aaaaaaaand......... I rest my case.

 

[rogdochar]

If I recall, there was plenty of analysis done after the game and by all counts it was legal as it was run, unfortunately.

Nobody posited the fact that the "non-holder" runner/passer's knee touched the ground after
he received the ball; so,no analysis of that was done. The fact that tackling the holder is off-limits
to the defensive rushers is similar to letting some offensive backfield guy blow a whistle all on his on.
Tacklers pull up and that would negate the play. It is not too much to require the holder to lift his knee
just before he catches the ball. All teams could practice that minor but fair adjustment. Bet there is
nothing in the rules that addresses this point. ?? Even you aren't addressing that, TLB.

Unless, of course, it is mentioned in the rulebook and I'm totally wrong ?

 

[GatorJ]

Can I ask why you can't hold a point of discussion? First you ask why a 'great coach' doesn't change the offensive plays around a backup QB becoming the starter. Many of us have argued why the plays are called to fit not a single player but the entire offense's capabilities and limitations. So then you switch to asking if anyone's seen a Saban team fold on him like ours did, presumably because you believe guys that win multiple national championships like him are too great a coach for that too happen - my presumption, so please correct me if I interpreted it wrong. And when people point out it has happened several times, you throw out the wild statement of having to win 100 MNCs for a bowl game to not count. Not much substance there as nobody (besides AL) have 100 MNCs, but many, many, many teams have failed to show up for bowl games. Owning recruiting? There are only a handful of teams (noting AL as the exception) that are in the top 5-10 annually, and even then it cycles on who those teams are atop the recruiting ranks. Being in the top isn't a guarantee of success either, see Muschamp as a prime example. However, Mac took us from 100 to t20 last year with a small window and has us in the t10 now a few days from NSD and has a good inside track on next year. How many years will he need to be in the top, and at what rank, to be considered 'owning' recruiting? And how will that change as it relates to success on the field, because again, WM proved the two don't correlate. Then you switch to this...



Unexcusable, or Inexcusable, whichever you choose to use means that there is no reason for the failure at the end of the season. Nobody is arguing it isn't a failure and that the shine is off from last season. But let me ask you this, mid-season before WG pulls a dumbass move, were we not a LOT better than expected? Mac should get credit. End of the season he is dealing with a QB that can't perform, and that's his best option, and we get killed. That is his fault? Could he control the QB depth, or the ability of those backups?

Let me put it to you this way, pretend you show up for walk on tryouts in basketball as an unknown. Suddenly your blocking shots and laying down dunks. You are well beyond what we expected of you. But then you break your leg. Is it inexcusable that you are no longer performing as you did before? That's what he was facing, going from a QB with a (football, not common sense) brain and an arm to a QB lacking both of those qualities. And you expect him to have the team perform as well as before? It simply isn't possible.

I'm not going to provide a qualifier saying obtaining certain wins, or only losing by a certain margin, would have made the end of the season acceptable - it was utterly fugly. However, there's only so much he could do with what he had. 2016 when he has his recruits (granted only 1-2 yrs worth of his recruits), you can complain a bit more that he either brought in kids without the brains or skills to perform, or that he didn't bring in enough for depth where needed, and maybe to a degree that the kids aren't getting the coaching they need (it takes time to break habits and build new ones). But 2015? He was working mostly with the hand he was dealt, and it was a bad hand.

I think if he were here for a few years and was responsible for the depth chart, the starting quarterback getting himself basically expelled would not be reason enough to crash at the end of the season.

But he inherited what he inherited. He salvaged the last recruiting class that only had like 8 recruits when he came in. I was worried about this recruiting class on the defensive side but he's done a great job with the D line which is probably the most important part. I'm worried about linebacker. And I don't like all the flyers we took in the defensive back field.

Receiver is solid, but not great. But what do you expect when you have no QB to sell the recruits on? Running back is fantastic. TE is solid. O-line is almost there.

He needs to keep up the elite defensive recruiting, continue to build the old-line, keep up the great running back recruiting, get his QB up and running, and eventually the receivers will come and the offensive inefficiency will dissipate.

Overall a pretty damn good job.

 

[T REX]

Can I ask why you can't hold a point of discussion? First you ask why a 'great coach' doesn't change the offensive plays around a backup QB becoming the starter. Many of us have argued why the plays are called to fit not a single player but the entire offense's capabilities and limitations. So then you switch to asking if anyone's seen a Saban team fold on him like ours did, presumably because you believe guys that win multiple national championships like him are too great a coach for that too happen - my presumption, so please correct me if I interpreted it wrong. And when people point out it has happened several times, you throw out the wild statement of having to win 100 MNCs for a bowl game to not count. Not much substance there as nobody (besides AL) have 100 MNCs, but many, many, many teams have failed to show up for bowl games. Owning recruiting? There are only a handful of teams (noting AL as the exception) that are in the top 5-10 annually, and even then it cycles on who those teams are atop the recruiting ranks. Being in the top isn't a guarantee of success either, see Muschamp as a prime example. However, Mac took us from 100 to t20 last year with a small window and has us in the t10 now a few days from NSD and has a good inside track on next year. How many years will he need to be in the top, and at what rank, to be considered 'owning' recruiting? And how will that change as it relates to success on the field, because again, WM proved the two don't correlate. Then you switch to this...



Unexcusable, or Inexcusable, whichever you choose to use means that there is no reason for the failure at the end of the season. Nobody is arguing it isn't a failure and that the shine is off from last season. But let me ask you this, mid-season before WG pulls a dumbass move, were we not a LOT better than expected? Mac should get credit. End of the season he is dealing with a QB that can't perform, and that's his best option, and we get killed. That is his fault? Could he control the QB depth, or the ability of those backups?

Let me put it to you this way, pretend you show up for walk on tryouts in basketball as an unknown. Suddenly your blocking shots and laying down dunks. You are well beyond what we expected of you. But then you break your leg. Is it inexcusable that you are no longer performing as you did before? That's what he was facing, going from a QB with a (football, not common sense) brain and an arm to a QB lacking both of those qualities. And you expect him to have the team perform as well as before? It simply isn't possible.

I'm not going to provide a qualifier saying obtaining certain wins, or only losing by a certain margin, would have made the end of the season acceptable - it was utterly fugly. However, there's only so much he could do with what he had. 2016 when he has his recruits (granted only 1-2 yrs worth of his recruits), you can complain a bit more that he either brought in kids without the brains or skills to perform, or that he didn't bring in enough for depth where needed, and maybe to a degree that the kids aren't getting the coaching they need (it takes time to break habits and build new ones). But 2015? He was working mostly with the hand he was dealt, and it was a bad hand.

I did not make the Saban comparison that you are referring to, fyi. I only added the Bama reference in response to some of ridiculous posts. Again, it is all excuses just like with Muschamp. Hopefully, Mac is better. Time will tell.

PS When I say owning recruiting...FSU and Bama have OWNED recruiting for the last few years. Until we are AHEAD of Bama and FSU yearly we are not owning recruiting.

 

[TLB]

Nobody posited the fact that the "non-holder" runner/passer's knee touched the ground after
he received the ball; so,no analysis of that was done. The fact that tackling the holder is off-limits
to the defensive rushers issimilar to letting some offensive backfield guy blow a whistle all on his on.
Tacklers pull up and that would negate the play. It is not too much to require the holder to lift his knee
just before he catches the ball. All teams could practice that minor but fair adjustment. Bet there is
nothing in the rules that addresses this point. ??

LSU's trick play was totally legal
The frustration of being had by Les Miles on LSU's fake field goal last Saturday led many Florida fans to assert, or wonder about, the illegality of the play itself, by virtue of holder Brad Kragthorpe's knee being down at the time of his throw — really, it was a pitch, as the play was officially recorded as a run — to kicker Trent Domingue.

This was also a popular complaint after LSU pulled a very similar trick play on the Gators in 2010. Both times, though, fans were wrong: As GatorZone's Scott Carter noted earlier this week, the NCAA's official rulebook (here's the 2015 version in a PDF) provides an exception that allows such trick plays to occur:

Ball Declared Dead
ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle or declare it dead:

b. When any part of the ball carrier's body, except his hand or foot, touches the ground or when the ball carrier is tackled or otherwise falls and loses FR-58 Rule 4 / Ball in Play, Dead Ball, Out of Bounds possession of the ball as he contacts the ground with any part of his body, except his hand or foot [Exception: The ball remains alive when an offensive player has simulated a kick or at the snap is in position to kick the ball held for a place kick by a teammate. The ball may be kicked, passed or advanced by rule] (A.R. 4-1-3-I)

We can argue about whether that rule is confusing, given how it seemingly contradictsthe rule governing live/dead ball calls in college football: A knee being down means the ball-carrier is down for good during a live play. We can argue that the exception shouldn't exist, or that the rule should be rewritten, but that just sounds like sour grapes from fans burned by a fake field goal, and it's a poor reason to outlaw fake field goals as a whole. I'd even argue that there's a very simple solution to both this problem and the NFL's convoluted process of determining a catch: Have the NCAA adopt the NFL's rules governing possession, allowing players to go to the ground without necessarily being down, and have the NFL adopt college football's catch rules, allowing one foot being in to qualify a play as a catch.

But what we can't argue is that the officials got that play wrong: They called it according to the NCAA rulebook.

 

[TLB]

I did not make the Saban comparison that you are referring to, fyi. I only added the Bama reference in response to some of ridiculous posts. Again, it is all excuses just like with Muschamp. Hopefully, Mac is better. Time will tell.

I was wrong. That was Left Coast Gator. I apologize.

PS When I say owning recruiting...FSU and Bama have OWNED recruiting for the last few years. Until we are AHEAD of Bama and FSU yearly we are not owning recruiting.

So....when they both get the death penalty for recruiting violations (AL) or general asshattery on legal issues (F$U), we will be ahead even if we're still ranked outside the t50....j/k. I'm being a dck because I've nothing more to add. I'll move on.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

You were. I was channeling my inner Law.

Law would never say something that stupid. No, you don't switch to option in the middle of a season nor would it have worked even if you had tried to run it from the beginning with that OL.

Sorry, but you're showing that your football IQ is zero.

 

[rogdochar]

P.S. TLB, no I don't bet after all ... sorry to put you to that much trouble, TLB.
Allow me to take this opportunity to say from the age of 10 I was chaplain and
treasurer of our Snoopy fan club. The other member was president and secretary.
Your multiple avatars are smile producers.

 

[GatorJ]

Law is grumpy.