***Florida vs George Washington NIT BBALL Thread***

MertzJay26

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Kansas out. 5th time Bill Self has lost as a #1 seed and didn't get to the Final 4. Talk about not getting it done. To think, ya'll complain about us not getting it done...

Lol they made the Elite 8 in the dance while we made the Elite 8 of the NIT. Definitely the same thing....

They've also won 12 straight league titles (in a better conference). I'm not doom and gloom about White, although I am a tad skeptical, but this is a pretty poor post, JBoss.
 

Jbossgator8

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If we were all Duke fans, you probably would have committed suicide by now and/or fired Coach K by now because he is at a Basketball school but ONLY has 5 Titles in 30 years. Just goes to show how tough it is to win it EVERY year and they have much higher expectations than we do...
 

Jbossgator8

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Will Self be fired?? He is at a basketball school and just can't get it done. Imagine what their fans are saying today about him. Probably the same stuff this message board says about all our coaches and AD.
 

MertzJay26

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We didn't even make the tourney. JBoss you are comparing apples to oranges.

Somebody needs to step off his high horse...
 

t-gator

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Kansas out. 5th time Bill Self has lost as a #1 seed and didn't get to the Final 4. Talk about not getting it done. To think, ya'll complain about us not getting it done...
Exactly! Atleast we didn't make the elite 8 in the real tourney. Are you touched?
 

InstiGATOR1

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FIFY. It's too early but not way too early. That was a failure of a first season. Not total failure, but a failure none the less. The team was poised to make the tourney and could have played into a good seeding but instead had a total collapse leading to White's usual, the NIT and this loss to a bunch of dorks.

There's no way around it, he needs to make the NCAA next year. If we don't he probably won't get fired but he should be. We don't have time to give him 4 or 5 years to get his guys in place. By then we will have lost everything BD built.

Well I am brand new here, but not to UF boards. I basically agree with you on White's first year. This team was scheduled like Donovan and Foley felt it would be good. I know Donovan left before much of the schedule was set, but still Donovan was the one who got St. Joe, Purdue and at Miami which is what beefed up the schedule. I am not sure how at Michigan St go on.

The bottom line is that this team did enough, barely enough but enough to get an NCAA bid. So it goes to the committee with UF on the bubble and teams like 'Cuse with the same number of wins and a worse RPI and strength of schedule get in and the 7th best team in the PAC12, Big 12, and Big 10 get in. So White now is a guy who can not get a bid with a bubble team AND HIS FATHER ON THE COMMITTEE. I am sure that will not be used against him in recruiting ever. It did not help that the SEC opted for a committee rep who spent 30ish years at an ACC school, i.e. Duke. Of course if the fan base does not care, it is certainly easier for the committee to leave you out. UF could have been in the 'Cuse slot which could have really helped White's situation at UF and in recruiting.

As for other points about UF on this thread:

1. Everyone struggles some to get bigs and UF is essentially big man U in basketball. UF has Haslem, Lee, Noah, Horford, Speights, currently in the NBA not counting semi-bigs like Miller, Brewer and Parsons. In addition UF had many fine college bigs over the last several years including Young, E. Murphy, Richard, ect. White did not have much of a reputation for bigs coming in, so in my view his work with Egbunu was very important this year. I would say that was a pretty solid success. Throw in good play of Hayes late in the season after Egbunu's operation and I think White has done enough to continue this tradition.

2. I agree UF should have beaten GW. Of course this was not a team that often played 3 good games in a row. There were lots of places this game was lost including on defense, but missing 3 layup in the last 4 or 5 minutes is another place you could point to. The Hayes miss was a head scratcher, the Hill misses were just Hill.

3. The rules about declaring for the NBA a much different this year. Almost every college player has nothing to lose by declaring so we may see a large number of UF players declare but later pull their names out. I do worry that someone like Egbunu might get a promise from a team for a second round guaranteed contract and bolt.

4. I think UF will return a nice core of players next year. Hill did seemingly have the light come on a bit the last few games. Many of his flaws were still there including screwing up a high percentage of fast break opportunities. I hope if he has a bad game early next year he can maintain his confidence. I am not sure what the deal with Chiozza is? He could be a good college players, but really regressed the second half of the season. Allen had a good Frosh year, but must build on it. He was too easy to take out of a game and rarely hit a big shot late in games. Hopefully Leon can replace Finney-Smith's scoring at least and part of his rebounding. I think Stone too could help at the 3. Robinson and Murphy if he gets a 6th year at the 4 can be a solid duo and Robinson can help at the 3 if needed. That leaves Egbunu and Hayes a center who are a solid combination in my view. It seems it will come down to mature smart guard play again next year. If these guards can progress and be consistent White should be able to get off the NIT treadmill. I do agree that if White can not get this group to the NCAAs next year, his tenure at UF is shaky at best. Good thing McCall seems to be showing promise at UT-Chattanooga.
 

t-gator

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Well I am brand new here, but not to UF boards. I basically agree with you on White's first year. This team was scheduled like Donovan and Foley felt it would be good. I know Donovan left before much of the schedule was set, but still Donovan was the one who got St. Joe, Purdue and at Miami which is what beefed up the schedule. I am not sure how at Michigan St go on.

The bottom line is that this team did enough, barely enough but enough to get an NCAA bid. So it goes to the committee with UF on the bubble and teams like 'Cuse with the same number of wins and a worse RPI and strength of schedule get in and the 7th best team in the PAC12, Big 12, and Big 10 get in. So White now is a guy who can not get a bid with a bubble team AND HIS FATHER ON THE COMMITTEE. I am sure that will not be used against him in recruiting ever. It did not help that the SEC opted for a committee rep who spent 30ish years at an ACC school, i.e. Duke. Of course if the fan base does not care, it is certainly easier for the committee to leave you out. UF could have been in the 'Cuse slot which could have really helped White's situation at UF and in recruiting.

As for other points about UF on this thread:

1. Everyone struggles some to get bigs and UF is essentially big man U in basketball. UF has Haslem, Lee, Noah, Horford, Speights, currently in the NBA not counting semi-bigs like Miller, Brewer and Parsons. In addition UF had many fine college bigs over the last several years including Young, E. Murphy, Richard, ect. White did not have much of a reputation for bigs coming in, so in my view his work with Egbunu was very important this year. I would say that was a pretty solid success. Throw in good play of Hayes late in the season after Egbunu's operation and I think White has done enough to continue this tradition.

2. I agree UF should have beaten GW. Of course this was not a team that often played 3 good games in a row. There were lots of places this game was lost including on defense, but missing 3 layup in the last 4 or 5 minutes is another place you could point to. The Hayes miss was a head scratcher, the Hill misses were just Hill.

3. The rules about declaring for the NBA a much different this year. Almost every college player has nothing to lose by declaring so we may see a large number of UF players declare but later pull their names out. I do worry that someone like Egbunu might get a promise from a team for a second round guaranteed contract and bolt.

4. I think UF will return a nice core of players next year. Hill did seemingly have the light come on a bit the last few games. Many of his flaws were still there including screwing up a high percentage of fast break opportunities. I hope if he has a bad game early next year he can maintain his confidence. I am not sure what the deal with Chiozza is? He could be a good college players, but really regressed the second half of the season. Allen had a good Frosh year, but must build on it. He was too easy to take out of a game and rarely hit a big shot late in games. Hopefully Leon can replace Finney-Smith's scoring at least and part of his rebounding. I think Stone too could help at the 3. Robinson and Murphy if he gets a 6th year at the 4 can be a solid duo and Robinson can help at the 3 if needed. That leaves Egbunu and Hayes a center who are a solid combination in my view. It seems it will come down to mature smart guard play again next year. If these guards can progress and be consistent White should be able to get off the NIT treadmill. I do agree that if White can not get this group to the NCAAs next year, his tenure at UF is shaky at best. Good thing McCall seems to be showing promise at UT-Chattanooga.
I like your post but hope we can get someone more experienced than mccall next time around.
 

Double Gator Dad

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Florida has always had trouble getting big men. It surprises me. Billy had trouble getting them. He did get Noah and Hortford, but Noah was a project. After that he got Speights who left earlier than he should have (although he has had a solid NBA career). He got the transfer Macklin and Patrick, but he has never had the steady stream.

He did have the one year where he got the two big guys Kenny Kadji who ended up transferring to Miami and the other one who went to UK (can't remember his name), but he was never able to get anybody after Patrick. That always surprised me because UF big men (Haslem, Lee, Noah, Hortford, Speights) all had successful NBA careers.

I am not sure how well White will be able to get big men since he runs a guard heavy offense and is known for his development of guards. That will be a key for him... if he can recruit and use big men.


I am not sure I am following you here.
You say Billy had trouble getting good big men and then you list 5-6 good big men. If you look back through the 19 years, for the most part Billy had more gaps with guards than big men. Although most of them were power forwards more so than centers, his style required mobility so forwards that could run were always more desirable and the college game reflects this same trend.
To this day almost every player we have in the NBA is a front court player versus a guard.
 

gatordad3

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Will Self be fired?? He is at a basketball school and just can't get it done. Imagine what their fans are saying today about him. Probably the same stuff this message board says about all our coaches and AD.
I wouldn't put it past the KU fans if they were. Personally, I'm glad they're out. Bill Self tends to have those Les Miles moments as well as the smug look and sneers on his face. IMO, KU got a better coach when Roy Williams left for UNC. Roy couldn't win squat when he had tons of NBA talent at Kansas.
 

t-gator

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The White story is not over yet. Maybe when UF next needs a coach McCall will be quite seasoned.
Maybe. I'd like to see McCall do it in a better conference first.
 

Durty South Swamp

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Any of y'all still b*tching about the Cuse getting in over us? :headshake:
 

Durty South Swamp

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Of course as I said above UF had as many wins, a better RPI and a stronger strength of schedule. UF most certainly was more deserving of a bid than 'Cuse.
The committees job is to field the best 60 something teams in the country, not pick ones that had the hardest schedule. I think it's pretty obvious when it comes to us and Syracuse, the committee chose wisely.
 

InstiGATOR1

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The committees job is to field the best 60 something teams in the country, not pick ones that had the hardest schedule. I think it's pretty obvious when it comes to us and Syracuse, the committee chose wisely.

You are falling of an ex-post fallacy. What happens afterwords does not change the situation when the decision was made. UF was more deserving a bid on selection Sunday than 'Cuse. Now maybe others deserved a bid more than both UF and 'Cuse, but UF was clearly a better choice than 'Cuse.

Also keep in mind 'Cuse has beaten 7 Dayton, 15 Middle Tenn, 10 Zags to get to today. Do you think UF could NOT beat those teams? Beating UVa today was a big upset, but not an impossible one.
 

NVGator

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You are falling of an ex-post fallacy. What happens afterwords does not change the situation when the decision was made. UF was more deserving a bid on selection Sunday than 'Cuse. Now maybe others deserved a bid more than both UF and 'Cuse, but UF was clearly a better choice than 'Cuse.

Also keep in mind 'Cuse has beaten 7 Dayton, 15 Middle Tenn, 10 Zags to get to today. Do you think UF could NOT beat those teams? Beating UVa today was a big upset, but not an impossible one.

Are you serious, Clark? We would have lost to every one of those teams. Maybe, MAYBE we get out alive against Dayton but Mid. Tenn. and the Zags would have shot us out of the gym. Don't forget Cuse is always great at defense. Something we've lacked for most the second half of the season.
 

ATXGator

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I am not sure I am following you here.
You say Billy had trouble getting good big men and then you list 5-6 good big men. If you look back through the 19 years, for the most part Billy had more gaps with guards than big men. Although most of them were power forwards more so than centers, his style required mobility so forwards that could run were always more desirable and the college game reflects this same trend.
To this day almost every player we have in the NBA is a front court player versus a guard.

As I say he has gotten some, but he never has gotten the steady stream of big men. He lost guys to transfer when he did get a couple and he brought a couple in, but it seems we are always in need of big men... with the exception of the 2006 and 07 teams that had Noah, Hortford and Chris Richard (plus Speights in 2007). After that... it has always been one at a time for the most part.
 

TLB

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Well....there'll be at least one more scholaraship available:

"UF forward DeVon Walker to transfer"
 

LeeForThree

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Are you serious, Clark? We would have lost to every one of those teams. Maybe, MAYBE we get out alive against Dayton but Mid. Tenn. and the Zags would have shot us out of the gym. Don't forget Cuse is always great at defense. Something we've lacked for most the second half of the season.
Just like we lost a road game in the NIT to OSU right....
 

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