The pilot was an instrument rated pilot and the helo was an instrument certified aircraft, but these guys spend very little time actually flying in instrument conditions. As a matter of fact, the company that chartered the helo isn't allowed to fly IFR (instrument flight rules) flights. The reason they do this is because they would have to pay for the training and certification, which isn't worth it in a place where the vast majority of the time the weather is beautiful. As a result these guys get very little if any time actually controlling an aircraft in the clouds where you can't see. I would be surprised if they find any other conclusion than that the pilot tried to turn around when the clouds started closing in, inadvertently going IMC (into the clouds), and got disoriented and lost control of the aircraft.
It will be interesting to see if the investigation produces any evidence of outside pressure on the pilot to push the safety envelope. It sounds easy to sit back and say that if something is unsafe you're just not going to do it, but when the boss man is breathing down your neck it does make a difference. Same thing happened at my old company a couple years before I started working there. Bossy aircraft owner put tons of pressure on the company and the pilots to fly him and 14 other people into Aspen when the conditions weren't acceptable, so they did it anyway and they all paid for it with their lives.
2001 Avjet Aspen crash - Wikipedia
Yeah I think you're being overly analytical.Power and influence or not, I can't imagine completely disregarding safety just to impose my will and get somewhere(non-emergency). .
The more common term is vertigo. You have no idea which way is up. Coming from the fighter community, the worst would be when you are flying as someone's wingman in formation and you go into the clouds. The other aircraft is your sole reference, as he flies on instruments you just follow along. There have been times when I felt as though we were practically upside down when in fact we were straight and level. I always tried as the lead aircraft to be straight and level when we entered a cloud so as to keep the wingman's vertigo to a minimum.Basically spatial disorientation, no? I did some research for a paper a while back on that. As someone who doesn't fly, it's beyond scary to even read about. Pretty sure it's also the likely cause of JFK Jr's crash.
Power and influence or not, I can't imagine completely disregarding safety just to impose my will and get somewhere(non-emergency). I'm too overly analytical, and I know I'd spend the final minutes/seconds of my life regretting the decision.
The more common term is vertigo. You have no idea which way is up. Coming from the fighter community, the worst would be when you are flying as someone's wingman in formation and you go into the clouds. The other aircraft is your sole reference, as he flies on instruments you just follow along. There have been times when I felt as though we were practically upside down when in fact we were straight and level. I always tried as the lead aircraft to be straight and level when we entered a cloud so as to keep the wingman's vertigo to a minimum.
Share your favorite Mamba story when you met, hang out, and/or hit it off.
Share your favorite Mamba story when you met, hang out, and/or hit it off.
I would like to think this as well but I am sure they could see how poor the visibility was and undoubtedly felt the rises and falls of the helicopter. They may not of known they were barreling towards a hill but, sadly, I am sure they well aware of how precarious their situation was.I guess the one sort of "bright side" to all this is the passengers probably never knew what hit them. They didn't have the terror of knowing they were about to crash and die, which to me is the worst part about envisioning an airplane or helicopter crash.
The thing people often don't understand about aircraft is how you create your own gravity and how that affects your perception. When you pull any amount of G (G stands for gravity), the little hairs in your inner ear get pulled in that direction by the acceleration force. Those hairs are used to being pulled straight toward the earth due to gravity, but when a plane is pulling any G they are being pulled in the opposite direction. With visual reference to the horizon this is no big deal but when you can't see anything your brain easily gets confused as to which way is up.
One of the best visual demonstrations of G force being controlled by the pilot is this old video from a famed test pilot named Bob Hoover.
Yeah the thing is that if he had performed this maneuver in the clouds you probably wouldn't even know that you had done a barrel roll.I have no idea why but watching that guy pour the tea made me almost queasy. I’m guessing its because my brain was having difficulty registering why the tea was pouring normally while the background was spinning. Thanks for the insight in this thread.
Im guessing that would have been exceedingly dangerous at the time of filming. I’m sure the instruments were not that advanced at the time.Yeah the thing is that if he had performed this maneuver in the clouds you probably wouldn't even know that you had done a barrel roll.
Because society puts too much emphasis on the celebrity class and not enough on the principals that bind the fabric of who we really are together. Its a gentle reminder.Why does this always come down to BUT THE TROOPS??????
I was going to make a joke about Marine Corps wives making their own gravity also but I won't do that.The thing people often don't understand about aircraft is how you create your own gravity and how that affects your perception.
I'm not a helo guy so take it for what its worth. I think for a helo that max speed and cruising speed are often the same. The limiting factor for a helo is the speed of the rotor blades, specifically because the as the aircraft moves forward, the airspeed is added to the advancing blade and subtracted from the retreating blade. Eventually you get to the point where the retreating blade isn't making enough lift and the rotor stalls. So something below that airspeed would be the max the helo could fly. I don't think its uncommon for them to spend time very near this speed however.I was going to make a joke about Marine Corps wives making their own gravity also but I won't do that.
I have a question about a speed.
I know he tried, if I understand it correctly, to go higher and was told they had commercial traffic in the way and then he asked for flight following and was advised he was too low for radar assistance. I assume that's the little bump up to 2000 feet likely because the fog was so bad and he was looking for a clear patch.
I don't understand much about helicopters and I'm wondering if there's a reason why he was flooring it. I assume going slow in helicopter probably burns more fuel but if Wikipedia is correct he was almost at max speed. aircraft rarely traveled at Max speed, correct?
Terrible but funny as hell. I guess that makes me terrible..oh well