Warning: Political Takes Mullen gets the Wutang

[Swamp Donkey]

are they dead yet?

 

[soflagator]

I know you don't really spend any time in the political forum, but I would encourage you to look in this thread:

COVID-19: I just did some quick calculations on death

While you are spot on that the risk to these kids and most of the coaches is negligible and shouldn't prevent us from playing, the evidence that 200,000 people have died from covid is pretty clear. It's just that 200,000 isn't that big of a number.

As I’ve said before, one death, if it’s close to you, is a big deal. So I don’t mean to down play any number from that standpoint. But if we’re saying that the number being presented daily as a “big deal” isn’t really that big, then it also begs the question, “would these people intentionally raise if they could?”. To me, the answer is yes, and I’ve supported it. If you say otherwise, again, fine by me. But if they weren’t upping the total, they wouldn’t have said so.

 

[neteng]

I know you don't really spend any time in the political forum, but I would encourage you to look in this thread:

COVID-19: I just did some quick calculations on death

While you are spot on that the risk to these kids and most of the coaches is negligible and shouldn't prevent us from playing, the evidence that 200,000 people have died from covid is pretty clear. It's just that 200,000 isn't that big of a number.

You're right ... 200k isn't that big of a number. Especially when you factor in that number contains a bunch of deaths they're trying to remove.

 

[Bernardo de la Paz]

I

As I’ve said before, one death, if it’s close to you, is a big deal. So I don’t mean to down play any number from that standpoint. But if we’re saying that the number being presented daily as a “big deal” isn’t really that big, then it also begs the question, “would these people intentionally raise if they could?”. To me, the answer is yes, and I’ve supported it. If you say otherwise, again, fine by me. But if they weren’t upping the total, they wouldn’t have said so.

You need to read the other thread.

She's likely talking the reporting data that goes to sites like worldometer, not what's on the death certificate which goes into a different database.

You've cited an example of an issue that would lead to additional covid deaths in the reporting data (from April when everything was still being figured out) while ignoring the fact that some deaths might be missed

And you aren't acknowledging that the simple way to figure out if we are erring on the side of too many or too few is to simply look and see if the number of people dying is increasing at a higher or lower rate than the reported numbers.

 

[Ancient Reptile]

Dr. Ngozi Ezike Refutes Notion That Illinois is Over-counting COVID-19 Deaths

Ezike said that the state is being careful to make sure to weed out deaths where the patient had COVID-19, but died in a manner completely detached from the virus, such as gunshot wounds or motor vehicle crashes.

“There are also some additional deaths that happen in someone who happened to be COVID positive, but where the COVID infection had nothing to do with the deaths,” she said. “So we are at IDPH trying to remove those obvious cases where the COVID diagnosis was not the reason for the death. If there was a gunshot wound, if there was a motor vehicle accident, we know that that was not related to the COVID positive status.

What did you expect her to say?

 

[Bernardo de la Paz]

What did you expect her to say?

I'm not sure what you mean

 

[Ancient Reptile]

Yes, of course there are errors. Even some that are missed. The question is whether it's a material amount.

It's pretty damn easy to look at the change in the total number of people dying and see that there's a significant increase in all of the places where covid outbreaks are and that the increase aligns pretty closely with the number of people dying of covid.

I'm not going to rehash the other thread I linked here, but if you have any other actual plausible explanation for the increase, I'd love to discuss it in that thread.

O don't care what Ezike tried to walk back, read what she said before the hammer fell. Maybe 200,000 died with covid (minus 1% false positives). Your insistence that covid fatalities is the only reliable covid datum is bizarre.

 

[Bernardo de la Paz]

O don't care what Ezike tried to walk back, read what she said before the hammer fell. Maybe 200,000 died with covid (minus 1% false positives). Your insistence that covid fatalities is the only reliable covid datum is bizarre.

The evidence that they are reliable is pretty overwhelming.

There are tons of obvious issues with the case counts.

 

[soflagator]

I

You need to read the other thread.

She's likely talking the reporting data that goes to sites like worldometer, not what's on the death certificate which goes into a different database.

You've cited an example of an issue that would lead to additional covid deaths in the reporting data (from April when everything was still being figured out) while ignoring the fact that some deaths might be missed

And you aren't acknowledging that the simple way to figure out if we are erring on the side of too many or too few is to simply look and see if the number of people dying is increasing at a higher or lower rate than the reported numbers.

As I’ve said, I’m sure there is a rise in deaths. I’m not refuting that it’s killing people. But in most cases, it’s largely self-inflicted via previous lifestyle, which in itself makes it debatable. No offense to anyone in particular, but unless you’re 90, you’ve been told most of your life that smoking is bad. Unless you’ve never read a bag of chips, you know fatty foods are bad. And unless you can’t read or live in Alabama, you know that exercise is not just for good looks but for overall health. So don’t tell me how an obese 55 year old with diabetes and heart disease is at risk, or worse, has died. That’s not Covid. That’s Covid taking people a few years early.

Point being, I’ll take precautions largely because of the stigma and what it would mean. But the mere fact that close to everyone we hear having it says some form of “I have no symptoms”, tells me that we’re making too much of it. No way we should have people forced into quarantine because they spent 16 minutes (while wearing a mask)with someone who also has no symptoms.

The virus is real. The response is largely insane.

 

[oxrageous]

Somebody got to Bernie.

We will pray for you, brother.

 

[neteng]

The evidence that they are reliable is pretty overwhelming.

There are tons of obvious issues with the case counts.

Except the ones that aren't.

 

[ThreatMatrix]

I

You need to read the other thread.

She's likely talking the reporting data that goes to sites like worldometer, not what's on the death certificate which goes into a different database.

You've cited an example of an issue that would lead to additional covid deaths in the reporting data (from April when everything was still being figured out) while ignoring the fact that some deaths might be missed

And you aren't acknowledging that the simple way to figure out if we are erring on the side of too many or too few is to simply look and see if the number of people dying is increasing at a higher or lower rate than the reported numbers.

No, No it doesn't. Garbage data is garbage. Was it garbage early or later or both? Are there other factors at play?
I spent most of my life analyzing data and can smell the stench of garbage data a mile away.
Take out the really old, the really pre-condition sick, moronic treatment (NY),and the, ahem, questionable deaths and you've got a virus a little bit worse than any bad seasonal flu. If this pandemic was all it was built up to be there would be dead homeless in the streets and 3rd world countries would be stacking bodies like cord wood.

 

[Bernardo de la Paz]

So don’t tell me how an obese 55 year old with diabetes and heart disease is at risk, or worse, has died. That’s not Covid. That’s Covid taking people a few years early.

This is the same with any cause of death.

 

[Bernardo de la Paz]

Are there other factors at play?
I spent most of my life analyzing data and can smell the stench of garbage data a mile away.

Please, tell me what caused a couple hundred thousand additional people to die this year.

And don't BS me with your data analysis skills. You were a Xilinx FAE.

 

[neteng]

This is the same with any cause of death.

Maybe before 2020.

 

[soflagator]

This is the same with any cause of death.

People with AIDS who died because their weakened immune systems allowed pneumonia or something else to kill them were labeled as AIDS deaths, and rightly so. That’s what killed them. The kicker wasn’t the killer. The precondition was. Suddenly, we’ve reversed that.

I have a step mother in law that smoked for years. She can barely breathe under normal conditions, and had been told that Covid would seal things. She hasn’t had healthy lungs in 30+ years, but based on the criteria, she’d be called Covid. In any other time, she wouldn’t.

 

[ThreatMatrix]

Please, tell me what caused a couple hundred thousand additional people to die this year.

And don't BS me with your data analysis skills. You were a Xilinx FAE.

You wanna talk professional smack now?

 

[Bernardo de la Paz]

People with AIDS who died because their weakened immune systems allowed pneumonia or something else to kill them were labeled as AIDS deaths, and rightly so. That’s what killed them. The kicker wasn’t the killer. The precondition was. Suddenly, we’ve reversed that.

I have a step mother in law that smoked for years. She can barely breathe under normal conditions, and had been told that Covid would seal things. She hasn’t had healthy lungs in 30+ years, but based on the criteria, she’d be called Covid. In any other time, she wouldn’t.

Look, in NYC about 1,000 people die every week. At the peak of their covid outbreak, it was about 8,000 dying every week. Nothing close to that has ever happened before.

Yes, almost all of those people had significant pre-existing conditions that would have killed them eventually, but they weren't going to die this year.

So if having covid caused them to die earlier than they would have if there was no covid, it seems like it makes sense to count it as covid.

 

[soflagator]

Look, in NYC about 1,000 people die every week. At the peak of their covid outbreak, it was about 8,000 dying every week. Nothing close to that has ever happened before.

Yes, almost all of those people had significant pre-existing conditions that would have killed them eventually, but they weren't going to die this year.

So if having covid caused them to die earlier than they would have if there was no covid, it seems like it makes sense to count it as covid.

But it’s different than ever before. That’s not debatable. In addition, fine. They’re Covid deaths. But making it seem as if everyone who gets it is heading to their doom(which is why we have these protocols) is insane. If Mullen has no symptoms, and isn’t at risk, let him be. Same with Cam a few weeks back. Or Saban this week. Don’t feel comfortable being around them? Stay away.

 

[Bernardo de la Paz]

You wanna talk professional smack now?

No, I want you to come up with something better than "that's garbage, trust me I know a lot about data"