Recruiting Re-ranked 2019 classes (UF #17)

[SC Gator]

This board is in shambles

 

[ufgator812]

SCDY?

 

[Sec14Gator]

This board is in shambles

This board was born from shambles.

This board thrives in shambles.

It would be more fun though to thrive in shambles while the Gators kick ass in the playoffs.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

Having a player enroll and leave is very rare - very.

Yeah so rare that ESPN once devoted an entire segment to whether or not one UF signee actually ever enrolled or not including trying to talk to TAs and looking at grade books. Good grief.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

It’s just one less scholarship athlete (a 5 star) that could have developed (savage and all that) into a real player and who was running with the 1’s occasionally.

No it is not. I was thinking of Jalon Jones showing that he did not have the talent to play at UF. At UF you have reasonably obey the rules and particularly not abuse women. He did not have those talents apparently.

But even as far as Steele goes, big time college, SEC and particularly UF football is not for everyone. Someone that walks out the door after 4 months is admitting that he thinks he does not have talent to play at UF. Whether that talent is work ethic or competitiveness or whatever, he is admitting he does not have it.

Other people who do have those talents might develop in UF's program. So now UF has the opportunity to go out and get someone with those talents.

 

[Gator By Marriage]

I'll be the Pumper...Mullen will turn the recruiting around BUT many will always want something different.

I have one very serious question…I am not trying to be an ARSE:

What determines if Mullen is a success, failure, or just okay?

What if we recruit well but still are a 9-10 win team?

Or we are a Top 10-15 recruiting team but win?

Consistently beating our rivals and winning the SEC east, regularly winning the SEC title and making (and winning in) the playoffs. If he can do that by recruiting in the 10-15 range, more power to him and he’ll last a long time. Personally I can’t see recruiting at that level and winning championships.

 

[Sec14Gator]

So now UF has the opportunity to go out and get someone with those talents.

Phew. Glad we NOW have the opportunity to get players who can contribute. Thanks Chris and Jalon. We were f’d without them leaving. It wasn’t Knox, English, Grantham or Mullen, it wasn’t the facilities, the recruiting staff, the dorms or the AD’s office holding us back. It was these two guys being on campus for 2 months. Look out Clemson. Now we are really coming for your commits!

 

[InstiGATOR1]

Phew. Glad we NOW have the opportunity to get players who can contribute. Thanks Chris and Jalon. We were f’d without them leaving. It wasn’t Knox, English, Grantham or Mullen, it wasn’t the facilities, the recruiting staff, the dorms or the AD’s office holding us back. It was these two guys being on campus for 2 months. Look out Clemson. Now we are really coming for your commits!

You have convinced me. We would have been much better having Jones getting suspended after winning the job and say before the national championship game. We would be much better off having Steele quit on UF on the field in a key play in the SEC championship game.

I am sure your policy of storing your bad apple with your good apples works out well for you. Other have different tastes in apples.

 

[Gator By Marriage]

You have convinced me. We would have been much better having Jones getting suspended after winning the job and say before the national championship game. We would be much better off having Steele quit on UF on the field in a key play in the SEC championship game.

I am sure your policy of storing your bad apple with your good apples works out well for you. Other have different tastes in apples.

I like Fuji.

 

[ThreatMatrix]

Matrix:

What constitutes talent? …Seriously

Do we need to average 4 stars? And does a 5 make up for a 3?

How high of a rank is enough to have continued success? 5, 10, 15…not below….?

And if you have a lot of 4-5 stars but some lowly back-ups?

I say this because Muschamp had talent BUT…

Zook had talent but…

Firstly: I propose that we carry 85 scholarship players. That would be a start.
Secondly: I propose that 2/3rds of those players be blue chip
Thirdly:I propose that those blue chippers be predominately top 250. I'll make some allowance for oline which typically are rated lower.
Fourthly: I propose that 1/3 to a 1/2 of those blue chippers be top 100.
Fifthly: I propose that at least 2 of every class be 5*.

Studies have shown that's generally the makeup of a championship team. Will Miles did a pretty good compilation a while back.

Finally: I propose that the team be coached competently. Zook, Chump, and Butters need not apply.

I honestly don't expect us to compete (i.e. win the SEC) until those requirements are close to being met.

 

[SeabeeGator]

It would be really cool if they tracked each class until it graduated. Would be curious to see if this class experienced crazy attrition early then had normal attrition later or if we had all of our bad apples filter out early. Would also be interesting to see if UGA continues to have a highly ranked class or if it continues to fall apart as Smarts BS is exposed.

 

[YLGator]

You have convinced me. We would have been much better having Jones getting suspended after winning the job and say before the national championship game. We would be much better off having Steele quit on UF on the field in a key play in the SEC championship game.

I am sure your policy of storing your bad apple with your good apples works out well for you. Other have different tastes in apples.

That’s some serious deflection. Look, the point is that the only QB and the only 5 star in the class were gone before the first fall practice. Trying to spin that into a positive is just silly. We clearly never should have recruited either one of those dudes, but for some reason we did. So instead of having an actual QB and a talented DB, we have nothing. That’s not going to help us beat the Dawgs anytime soon.

 

[NOLAGATOR]

Firstly: I propose that we carry 85 scholarship players. That would be a start.
Secondly: I propose that 2/3rds of those players be blue chip
Thirdly:I propose that those blue chippers be predominately top 250. I'll make some allowance for oline which typically are rated lower.
Fourthly: I propose that 1/3 to a 1/2 of those blue chippers be top 100.
Fifthly: I propose that at least 2 of every class be 5*.

Studies have shown that's generally the makeup of a championship team. Will Miles did a pretty good compilation a while back.

Finally: I propose that the team be coached competently. Zook, Chump, and Butters need not apply.

I honestly don't expect us to compete (i.e. win the SEC) until those requirements are close to being met.

Thanks...good stuff.

How many D-1 Teams can meet this criteria?

A friend of mine (OSU FAN) was just saying...with the Top Tier kids if they don't start...they bail...especially Skilled positions

 

[t-gator]

I wouldn't go that far. At least these guys do something in the weight room other than eat pb&j. But I do agree that recruiting results have not changed much since Mullen's arrival. We needed significant recruiting improvements, and it hasn't happened yet.

You could argue that recruiting has gotten slightly worse. The coaching is light years better though and the s&c( like you said) aswell. But recruiting could be a touch worse.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

Firstly: I propose that we carry 85 scholarship players. That would be a start.
Secondly: I propose that 2/3rds of those players be blue chip
Thirdly:I propose that those blue chippers be predominately top 250. I'll make some allowance for oline which typically are rated lower.
Fourthly: I propose that 1/3 to a 1/2 of those blue chippers be top 100.
Fifthly: I propose that at least 2 of every class be 5*.

Studies have shown that's generally the makeup of a championship team. Will Miles did a pretty good compilation a while back.

Finally: I propose that the team be coached competently. Zook, Chump, and Butters need not apply.

I honestly don't expect us to compete (i.e. win the SEC) until those requirements are close to being met.

This is an interesting proposal.

1: Right now in the 247 top 10 talented programs 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8 have 85 players. The other 4 programs do not. However only one number 10 has less than 80. So I would agree with this one by maybe say 82+. It is always good to have a spot or two in August in case someone like Cox wants to transfer in.

2. Right now in the 247 top 10 talented programs only 1, 2, 3 make that percentage. Perhaps 60% might be a better number for you.

3/4. I view these as a bit arbitrary and hard to track. The biggest problem is 2019 250th player may not be better than the 2020 251st player. Similarly with top 100s.

5. Let give your metric a break on this one and say that many 5 star players go pro after four years and thus this means at least 8 five star players on the roster. Only 3 teams in the country right now have that many. Clemson for example does not meet this criteria.

6. Concur completely.

UF is currently at 78 players according to the site that prompted this thread. I have UF at 77 so UF needs bring that number up to around 82 or 83 in the next couple of years. Of those 78 players 38 or 48.7% were blue chip recruits and only 1 was a five star recruit.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

We clearly never should have recruited either one of those dudes, but for some reason we did. So instead of having an actual QB and a talented DB, we have nothing.

Well I do not agree with too much of your post, but the first sentence I quoted above is spot on at least for Jones. The signs of issues were there. One might have thought he might have been warned that UF was barely sticking with him and not to feel entitled after he got in trouble his SR year of high school.

On the other hand since negative recruiting goes on, UF has a more open depth chart this year a both QB and CB than it would with J. Jones and Steele. UF also has the opportunity to sign more players though as others have discussed that is less valuable for UF now than other times when the roster numbers are tighter. Still that is not nothing, but you are correct it is not as good as having talented players progressing through the system. Alas as I said above certainly J. Jones and seemingly Steele did not have the talent to play at UF whether or not they have the talent to play elsewhere.

 

[deuce]

That’s some serious deflection. Look, the point is that the only QB and the only 5 star in the class were gone before the first fall practice. Trying to spin that into a positive is just silly. We clearly never should have recruited either one of those dudes, but for some reason we did. So instead of having an actual QB and a talented DB, we have nothing. That’s not going to help us beat the Dawgs anytime soon.

And yet, many, including myself, think we will beat UGA this year.......

 

[ThreatMatrix]

Thanks...good stuff.

How many D-1 Teams can meet this criteria?

A friend of mine (OSU FAN) was just saying...with the Top Tier kids if they don't start...they bail...especially Skilled positions

This is an interesting proposal.

1: Right now in the 247 top 10 talented programs 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8 have 85 players. The other 4 programs do not. However only one number 10 has less than 80. So I would agree with this one by maybe say 82+. It is always good to have a spot or two in August in case someone like Cox wants to transfer in.

2. Right now in the 247 top 10 talented programs only 1, 2, 3 make that percentage. Perhaps 60% might be a better number for you.

3/4. I view these as a bit arbitrary and hard to track. The biggest problem is 2019 250th player may not be better than the 2020 251st player. Similarly with top 100s.

5. Let give your metric a break on this one and say that many 5 star players go pro after four years and thus this means at least 8 five star players on the roster. Only 3 teams in the country right now have that many. Clemson for example does not meet this criteria.

6. Concur completely.

UF is currently at 78 players according to the site that prompted this thread. I have UF at 77 so UF needs bring that number up to around 82 or 83 in the next couple of years. Of those 78 players 38 or 48.7% were blue chip recruits and only 1 was a five star recruit.

I'm nothing if not an interesting proposer.
In reality the goal is the SEC which pretty much = the NC. Our competition is Alabama, Georgia and since we play them every year, LSU. Those three teams routinely kick our ass in recruiting and I would bet that their numbers track closely with what I laid out. Clemson may be an outlier but I'd rather follow the rule than the exception.
It goes without saying that it's all about the numbers. The more you have the better, duh. Bama loses a top 100 starter to attrition/injury they plug in a top 250. We lose a top 250 starter we replace with a guy ranked in the 700's. You have to have the Jessie and Joes (Or these days Jameals and J'wanas).

Talent isn't everything but it's a requirement. SOS in the 90's is the only coach I'd take with lesser team talent. You could argue that we have a better coach than Georgia or LSU (that's more of an indictment of Kirby and Ed O than praise of Mullen.) And that may be enough once in a while but I'll put my money on talent. Yeah matchups matter, player vs player, unit vs unit, but still, for the long haul, I'll take overall talent. College football is thankfully often a game of emotion. Witness Miami this year and Georgia last. If we had early leads those games would have been vastly different. Everybody we play seems to bring their "A" game so when we don't squash inferior teams early (Kentucky, Mizzu) we're in for a battle despite having ostensibly more talent. At other times (Vandy, USC) the talent pulls us through.

In conclusion, until recruiting is on par with UGA/LSU I don't expect to get to Atlanta. Give me two years in a row of top 5 classes and then we can talk. We could get lucky but luck ain't going to beat the talent differential of 'bama. Or it could. That's why we bother to watch. If Mullen doesn't fix recruiting next year (this year is all but lost) then we better hope AR is the next coming of TT or it's going be a loooong time before we see the promised land.

 

[Oscar the G]

.

In conclusion, until recruiting is on par with UGA/LSU I don't expect to get to Atlanta. .

mcelwain got us to Atlanta, but that shouldn't change your expectations.

 

[ThreatMatrix]

mcelwain got us to Atlanta, but that shouldn't change your expectations.

Because we (Chump) had out recruited Georgia, i.e. we had more talent. Even SharkFcker couldn't screw that up.