The Savage Treatment

[Nomadigator]

Turn the channel boys.

You are boring us.

The worst crime is to bore us.

Well then...fvvk it...let's Dance The Plight of the Muzungu!

 

[neteng]

And you see ... this is my point. It is peripheral data used to consult when things aren't adding up. Or ... at best ... a daily report of the team aggregate compared to baseline to see the overall team form (building, peaking, recovering ... at team level or group level ... whatever) to see if adjustments need to be made. Obviously, you can see if individuals pop out.

But ... honestly, any coach worth their salt that isn't remote and onsite with the athletes can look them in the eye and see how they are performing. Heart rate data is finicky and not the most trusted source to paint the picture and should always be used (unless you are running long distances) as secondary or peripheral data. It doesn't make a program elite nor, in my opinion, worth spending a full time salary to track. If this was a remote situation where a coach and their staff aren't present, then it becomes a much more valuable tool. But when onsite and watching ... what you see and what you hear from them are far more trustworthy and prime data.

 

[neteng]

Turn the channel boys.

You are boring us.

The worst crime is to bore us.

 

[GatorTom85]

Wow! I wasn't expecting this to become a strength and conditioning nerd debate!

 

[CGgater]

Wow! I wasn't expecting this to become a strength and conditioning nerd debate!

The possibilities are ENDLESS here at Gatorchatter.

 

[neteng]

Blah blah blah ... a whole lot of words thrown my way on one comment taken without its true content. In no way did I ever say or infer that elite coaches only need to look them in the eye. You seem to be stuck in a yes or no, this or that, black or white do loop. If I was standing next to you I would slap you in the back of the head to get you unstuck (of course, then I would run until you tired out because I promise you could never catch me ... I go all day). Your ridiculous point is founded on the idea that I am saying a coach needs no tools other than his eyes and his voice. That is stupid. If I wanted to go down the hyperbolic hole you are digging, I would counter that what you're saying is stupid because you seem to think top coaches are only looking at their spreadsheets, gleaned reports and gantt charts to make their athletes great. That is just as stupid.

If you are going to coach a team, you HAVE to know the athlete. You have to understand how they live and tendencies. You need to know what their normal behavior is so when something seems wrong you know. That is what I mean when I say look them in the eye. Then, and only then, all the data being collected helps paint the whole picture about the current athlete's form. Then you understand when an athlete is 'straining' and grinding, and the wrong move is to lighten the load or shorten the distance ... or ... when the athlete is doing damage and its time to deload a bit. You know if their low heart rate and low variability is vindictive more of the stress of their life (failing a class ... girl issues ... drinking/partying) or its because they have been grinding and tired.

HRV is secondary data and doesn't really drive decisions ... it just confirms or denies it.

And by the way ... like I said before ... tour the facilities and working in them isn't the same thing so stop throwing that around like it means you are a freaking expert at training athletes. Training people is training people and I have been doing it for my entire professional life.

 

[gatormandan]

 

[I Have No Friends :(]

 

[neteng]

 

[gatormandan]

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Net and Raz, two of my favorites.

Let me put it more directly. NO ONE GIVES A SHYT. I doubt anyone is even reading. Just take this little twatfest to private messages.

 

[rogdochar]

You two myth blusters should get a broom.

 

[GatorAuthor]

You gots to drop the mike after a Dunning-Kruger reference, bro! The D-K Effect is comically prevalent these days.

I’m not weighing in on this quarrel or our beloved GCMB at all, but some of these cognitive biases are ways of life for the general public out there.

 

[neteng]

I ignored the Dunning-Kruger comment so I could walk the dog with him since he seems to cling to HRV as if it is some golden chalice. I am a level 3 USAT coach, just wasn't going to throw that out. I don't tour facilities nor consult, I actually do it and have done it for some time. I have a good understanding of what it takes to take an athlete through a process with specific goals and outcomes desired. Though I will say this, while I am an expert in the slow twitch arena on most days, I don't have any expertise in the fast twitch world which I believe football is in. Doesn't mean I can't make intelligent deductions though. Furthermore, I spent over 21 years in the Army training soldiers to do my job. I understand how to train.

 

[neteng]

Speaking of Dunning-Kruger ... you just took your picture and put it in the dictionary for it. Derp derp.

 

[Jack o' Diamonds]

Do you really always have to have the last word, and always be right???

 

[neteng]

Do you really always have to have the last word, and always be right???

It isn't that he is right or wrong, its that his original premise to throw shade at our S&C program because we aren't spending a lot of money on the science side of it is BS. And it isn't that I am disagreeing with him that a lot of the data isn't very useful, because it really is useful, its that it is getting into the weeds of vector checking progress and knowing when to make plan adjustments.

But I will say this, though I have coached a couple elite athletes as well as many above average age groupers in endurance sports, I haven't given the thought of a football team's training process until this thread. I wish I could sit down with Savage and query him on a lot of stuff. It is pretty neat to think about the whole off season workout cycle that feeds into to spring ball cycle that feeds into that short spurt of time between the O&B game until summer practices start. Then into a game week cycle .. and so on. Then you got the redshirts doing their process. Then you got the whole start it over each year thing. It sounds like a grind and though all that data being collected is important, and become more important the longer they stay (3-5 years), the hardest part is starting a process over that you just finished if you were successful.

We have a saying in cycling ... it never hurts less, if you keep at it the pain is the same but you just go faster. Its hard to keep coming back without slacking some.

 

[Jack o' Diamonds]

It isn't that he is right or wrong, its that his original premise to throw shade at our S&C program

The real underlying premise is to discredit CDM either directly or indirectly.. He really dislikes Mullen...