Toney & Hendo both get the coveted #1 jersey

[Concrete Helmet]

think/was told...Don't know for sure...he is not all that sure handed with punts

Now that I think about it he did fumble a punt toward the end of the season last year, can't remember the exact game.

 

[neteng]

He's a game breaker but not consistently is what the OP is trying to get across I think. I am alright with him taking a chance to break a big gainer when he touches the ball and I think he does so because he knows he's probably only gonna get 4-6 touches a game. For the life of me though I can't understand why he isn't returning punts?

He def has that ability that a lot of players don't. Kinda like how Franks has that big frame and arm ...

Ability isn't even remotely in question. Its his decision making and hole snobbness.

 

[NOLAGATOR]

He def has that ability that a lot of players don't. Kinda like how Franks has that big frame and arm ...

Ability isn't even remotely in question. Its his decision making and hole snobbness.

But again, who else would you use? We don't have Harvin and our line is not there yet.

 

[Sec14Gator]

Ooh, our luck. Two separate threads with Nola and Neteng focusing their inability to let sh!t go on each other. These two geniuses and their ridiculous positions will have us to a million posts in no time.

 

[NOLAGATOR]

Ooh, our luck. Two separate threads with Nola and Neteng focusing their inability to let sh!t go on each other. These two geniuses and their ridiculous positions will have us to a million posts in no time.

And Sec14 thinking he is Mr Football...I hear ESPN calling.

 

[neteng]

Ooh, our luck. Two separate threads with Nola and Neteng focusing their inability to let sh!t go on each other. These two geniuses and their ridiculous positions will have us to a million posts in no time.

Guess you think you are above the stink ... but here you are

 

[NOLAGATOR]

Guess you think you are above the stink ... but here you are

SEC 14​

 

[Gator By Marriage]

And being the arse you are it’s hard to agree...BUT comparing anyone to Harvin is a stretch.

It's like comparing anyone to Hershel Walker, Michael Jordan, Tebow…

That said, Toney brings a lot to the table. He is our most dynamic offensive player

And Net, if I am a Moron you must be an Idiot

IQ between 0 and 25 are idiots
IQs between 26 and 50 are imbeciles
IQ between 51 and 70 are considered morons.

"Run Forest, RUN"

I love this place. I learn something new all the time. I had always thought imbeciles were dumber than idiots. Today I learned they are not. Thank you. I will adjust accordingly.

 

[Gator By Marriage]

Now that I think about it he did fumble a punt toward the end of the season last year, can't remember the exact game.

Pretty sure it was USCe.

 

[gatorev12]

Stop comparing him to Harvin when it is obvious he isn't. Harvin ran north and south ... Toney runs east and west.

When I responded to this thread I knew there would be harsh comebacks to me. Nola gave me a stone but he is just a moron so I ignored it. Muscleplug and you downgrading me, I take sincerely. I I get it. He is really talented and I do not deny that. But he also is unwilling to hit a hole. When he runs north and south he is really fun to watch. But have you not seen him run sideways for way more yards and taken losses when he could have had a 2-3 yd gain (or more) if he just hit the hole?

People threw negative ratings not because you don't have a point; but because you waaaaay overstated your case.

You literally said that all he does is go east west and when it works, it busts free for a huge gain; but when it doesn't, he takes a 10 yard loss "every time."

Sas posted the stats from last year, but the guy averaged 10+ yards per touch last year either rushing or receiving. On Saturday, he had 3 rushes: one for 6 yards, one for 3 (on 4th and 1 facing a stacked defensive front), and a -6 yard jet sweep you're referring to. Plus one reception for 66 yards and a TD.

The reality here is that while he's not Harvin and he sometimes does try and do too much: he pulls it off FAR more than you're giving credit for or acknowledging. In terms of raw talent and explosiveness, he's probably the best we have on our team.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

Ability isn't even remotely in question. Its his decision making and hole snobbness.

The way I look at it is like this...If we try to throw a long bomb(over 40 yards through the air) 4 things can happen.
It's incomplete.
It's intercepted.
Franks gets sacked for a 8-10 yard loss.
It's successful for a huge gain.

If you get the ball to Toney(close to the LOS) he will
Run East/West and pick up little or no yardage.
He will find an opening and pick up good positive yards and perhaps a 1st down.
He will dance around and maybe lose 5-10 yards.
He will hit an opening and create a big play, maybe score.

If you look at the odds of 2 plays the likely hood of success is really about the same, right?
And that is the reason we only try each one about 5 times per game. They are kind all or nothing type plays.

 

[neteng]

People threw negative ratings not because you don't have a point; but because you waaaaay overstated your case.

You literally said that all he does is go east west and when it works, it busts free for a huge gain; but when it doesn't, he takes a 10 yard loss "every time."

Sas posted the stats from last year, but the guy averaged 10+ yards per touch last year either rushing or receiving. On Saturday, he had 3 rushes: one for 6 yards, one for 3 (on 4th and 1 facing a stacked defensive front), and a -6 yard jet sweep you're referring to. Plus one reception for 66 yards and a TD.

The reality here is that while he's not Harvin and he sometimes does try and do too much: he pulls it off FAR more than you're giving credit for or acknowledging. In terms of raw talent and explosiveness, he's probably the best we have on our team.

Ok ... but I think you are overstating the other side of it. Take the passes away from his 'touches'. I have way more memories of him failing on the jet sweep and other plays where he gets it at the LOS than I do of him ever breaking it.

 

[neteng]

The way I look at it is like this...If we try to throw a long bomb(over 40 yards through the air) 4 things can happen.
It's incomplete.
It's intercepted.
Franks gets sacked for a 8-10 yard loss.
It's successful for a huge gain.

If you get the ball to Toney(close to the LOS) he will
Run East/West and pick up little or no yardage.
He will find an opening and pick up good positive yards and perhaps a 1st down.
He will dance around and maybe lose 5-10 yards.
He will hit an opening and create a big play, maybe score.

If you look at the odds of 2 plays the likely hood of success is really about the same, right?
And that is the reason we only try each one about 5 times per game. They are kind all or nothing type plays.

You forgot "Franks fumbles"

As for the Toney options ... I recall way more 'run east/west and lose yards' than any of the other options. That is the point I am making.

Toney has become the 'Percy' of this era. We have had others before and they all seem to be sorely lacking. But I really think Toney is special ... I just think he needs some serious coaching with getting upfield. He seemed to disappear from the game after that jet sweep, didn't he? Wonder why.

 

[TLB]

For every 66yd TD play you get from him, you get about 10 loss of yard plays like the jet sweep he F'd up in the same game. He has no real discipline and double downs on bad decision after bad decision every single time. I think he is incredibly talented but he just can't seem to control himself. He is willing to eat a 10yd loss instead of taking the 2-3yd gain on a broke play. Every single time. He runs 50yds sideways and backwards for a loss of a couple 9 out of 10 times.

I'll give you he is willing to run 50 E-W, but I'd be willing to bet half those get a first down or more. I'll agree he isn't Percy, he does a LOT more E-W whereas Percy stuck a foot and took off. I'll support you with the fact that Toney doubles down and can't control himself - it is how he is wired, to jitterbug and make people miss. He's not Percy, or Barry Sanders, or Emmitt...he's Toney, and with that comes the incredible ability to cut through tight traffic and get that 4-8y that wasn't there for most other players....and the ability to make the cut and lose yards instead of just tucking and getting what you can out of it. It's just how he is.

Looking at the last game, his touches:
KO return of 21y
1st&10@FL34 = 66y TD reception
1st&10@FL40 = 6y run
4th&1@FL49 = 3y run for 1st Down
3rd&3@FL40 = Incomplete
2nd&11@MIA37 = -6y run for loss


Net is a slight plus in statistics. Not shown in stats is the fact that defenses have to account for him everytime he's in the game. Every touch could be a breakaway. As you admit, he's got the talent, it just comes with the downside of occasional stubbornness trying to make something from nothing.

Most of us are willing to trade that occasional loss for the multiple opportunities for big gains. I'd also question how many of his positive plays are due to his ability vs team mates doing their job....then compare that to the times he loses yards because of his team mates NOT doing their jobs?

 

[Captain Sasquatch]

So I just finished figuring out how many times Toney either lost yards or was held to no gain on a touch last season. You ready to have your minds blown?

He had exactly TWO plays last year where he lost yards on a touch, once against Vandy and once against South Carolina.

He also had exactly TWO plays last year where he gained no yards on a touch, once against UGA and once against Michigan.

Add those to the one play he lost against Miami and he's had 5 touches the last two years where he either failed to gain a yard or lost yards. That's 5 out of 50 touches on scrimmage plays (so not counting punt or kick returns). So can we put this weird episode to bed now?

 

[gatorev12]

So I just finished figuring out how many times Toney either lost yards or was held to no gain on a touch last season. You ready to have your minds blown?

He had exactly TWO plays last year where he lost yards on a touch, once against Vandy and once against South Carolina.

He also had exactly TWO plays last year where he gained no yards on a touch, once against UGA and once against Michigan.

Add those to the one play he lost against Miami and he's had 5 touches the last two years where he either failed to gain a yard or lost yards. That's 5 out of 50 touches on scrimmage plays (so not counting punt or kick returns). So can we put this weird episode to bed now?

 

[TLB]

So I just finished figuring out how many times Toney either lost yards or was held to no gain on a touch last season.

Try to keep up son, the question is how many yards does he run between sidelines as opposed to between endzones. Now, go back and watch the replays of ALL those touches last year and get back to us, m'kay?

 

[PastyStoole]

It's actually unavoidable. There are 107 players (more if Weston or Henderson show up). Even if they issued a "0" and a "00" there would be some duplicates. Unless of course you think we should have three digit numbers......

I like the tradition that Notre Dame, Penn State, and the Military Academies have of not putting numbers on their jerseys to show that it's "all about the team, not the individual." I think we should adopt a tradition of not having numbers on our jerseys as well. That would solve this problem.

 

[lagator]

#1 equals the number of times he is on field per game.

I was thinking number of targets per half, but same concept.

 

[lagator]

So I just finished figuring out how many times Toney either lost yards or was held to no gain on a touch last season. You ready to have your minds blown?

He had exactly TWO plays last year where he lost yards on a touch, once against Vandy and once against South Carolina.

He also had exactly TWO plays last year where he gained no yards on a touch, once against UGA and once against Michigan.

Add those to the one play he lost against Miami and he's had 5 touches the last two years where he either failed to gain a yard or lost yards. That's 5 out of 50 touches on scrimmage plays (so not counting punt or kick returns). So can we put this weird episode to bed now?

Not to mention we lose to scUM if not for by far the best individual effort play of the game. But yeah, he sucks, I hope he keeps getting less touches than you can count on one hand.