Top 10 NBA Small Forwards Alltime

[MJMGator]

You're telling me that the athlete 30 years ago is better than todays athlete?

More skilled...less athletic.

 

[TheDouglas78]

Btw, that's a fair post Dougie. BUT to compare the 2 STATS wise (and I'm not saying STATS are in the end-all / be-all...

Career: Points / Rebounds / Assists / Blocks / Steals / PER

Bird: 21,791 (24.1) / 8974 (10.) / 56.95 (6.3) / 755 (0.8) / 1556 (1.7)
Lebron: 25,839 (27.9) / 6769 (7.1) / 6518 (6.9) / 747 (.8) / 1606 (1.7)

Bird played 13 seasons. Lebron is on his 13th season. Bird's last couple years were marred by his bad back so that needs to get taken into consideration on his stats.

Lebron was a bit better on 2 pointers - 53% to Bird's 51%
Bird was a bit btter on 3 pointers - 38% to Lebrons 34%.
Effective FG (3s and 2s with an adjustment for 3 pointers being worth more): Lebron leads 53%-51%

Interestingly enough, Lebron has more assists - so this notion that Lebron is completely outclassed in that area is nonsense. BUT where Bird really, really excels is in rebounding. If you watched him play it seemed he never jumped but was always in position to pull boards.

I looked at playoffs and it's about the same trend. The two are pretty close statistically. The difference again (for me) is that he's done more with less. If he wins a title or 2 with the Cavs he goes down top 3 or 4 players all time IMO.

Right now that list is probably:

Jordan
Russell
Magic
Wilt
Kareem

With Lebron, Kobe, Duncan, and Olajuwon on the outside looking in.

Bird 13 years started later than LeBrons due to the way the establishment is now, and Bird's own decisions in his late teens.

 

[GatorJ]

It's also important to note that LeBron can guard all five positions. Bird could not do that. He was a solid defender but not on Lebron's level.

 

[GatorJ]

More skilled...less athletic.

Huh? Maybe overall the design of the league showcased offensive skill more, but there are players today that are just a skilled if not more skilled.

Who in the 80s would've been able to guard to guard Durant, Lebron, Shaq, Nowitski? Durant and Nowitski are seven footers that play like shooting guards.

 

[GatorJ]

Also LeBron outweighed Bird by about 30 pounds. That's a lot of extra weight leaning on you in the paint.

 

[alcoholica]

It's also important to note that LeBron can guard all five positions. Bird could not do that. He was a solid defender but not on Lebron's level.

Is it a SF's job to guard all 5 positions? Sounds like an argument for the best all around player, which you still lose, because Magic would've been a HOF at any position

 

[GatorJ]

Is it a SF's job to guard all 5 positions? Sounds like an argument for the best all around player, which you still lose, because Magic would've been a HOF at any position

Magic's better than LeBron.

Now that that's out-of-the-way...

It speaks to LeBron's ability to carry lesser talented teams. In the event that you have a player that cannot match a player on another roster he can fill that gap. Say your point guard cannot defend the point guard on another team. He can step in and defend the point.

He routinely has to defend other positions because of the holes on the rosters.

 

[GatorJ]

LeBron could probably never be top three of all time.

#1: there's a big question mark around his mental fortitude. In particular, his whiny bytching.

#2: if you're looking at best all-around player, that's going to go to Magic so he cannot surpass Magic.

#3: if you're looking at elevating the players around him and having an insatiable competitive fire, he will always be behind Jordan.

#4: and if you look at dominance during their timeframe, although he has been extremely dominant during this era, nobody was as dominant in their era as Wilt Chamberlain.

 

[TheDouglas78]

Huh? Maybe overall the design of the league showcased offensive skill more, but there are players today that are just a skilled if not more skilled.

Who in the 80s would've been able to guard to guard Durant, Lebron, Shaq, Nowitski? Durant and Nowitski are seven footers that play like shooting guards.

I would consider shaq part of that era we are talking about... there are certain athletes that are going to be good through out time, I would consider Durant, LeBron and Shaq to be those. They would be great regardless of the era. I see Nowitski as a step below those athletes, and I think there are a few 5s that could have defended him.

 

[gardnerwebbgator]

The Hick from French Lick may be the Greatest White Basketball Player of All Time....

Respectfully, hell and no. Pete Maravich is THE greatest white basketball player of all time. All time college hoops scoring leader with 3,667 points, all-time college scoring average of 44.2 points per game. Absolutely sick as hell, and with NO three point line. If he had a 3 point line, that average likely would been close to 50 ppg. No, he didn't have a stellar NBA career due to injuries and his drug demons, but the man had 'skills' long before 'skills' were constantly bragged about.

 

[GatorJ]

Respectfully, hell and no. Pete Maravich is THE greatest white basketball player of all time. All time college hoops scoring leader with 3,667 points, all-time college scoring average of 44.2 points per game. Absolutely sick as hell, and with NO three point line. If he had a 3 point line, that average likely would been close to 50 ppg. No, he didn't have a stellar NBA career due to injuries and his drug demons, but the man had 'skills' long before 'skills' were constantly bragged about.

Number eight was just nuts. And he had a couple of those underhanded passes which seem to hit players in stride like a receiver. Number four was Jordanesque.

There's a pass that he does 2'20" seconds in the second video that's mesmerizing. He's like a freaking David Blaine.

 

[t-gator]

More skilled...less athletic.

Do you even watch any of todays nba? The game is way more advanced. The kinda ball skills you see in the nba now wasn't around back then.

 

[oxrageous]

Pistol Pete was a great scorer. Wasn't anywhere near the greatest player. Bird could have averaged 40 points a game if he wanted to, but that's not how you win games.

 

[oxrageous]

Do every watch any of todays nba? The game is way more advanced. The kinda ball skills you see in the nba now wasn't around back then.

Try to resist posting anymore in this thread.

 

[t-gator]

Of all sports basketball seems to be the one that hasn't hasn't advanced in the last 30 years. Even though it's expanded worldwide and kids are playing year round now a days. That's what you guys are saying.

 

[oxrageous]

The game is not more advanced today. If anything it's LESS advanced.

 

[t-gator]

The game is not more advanced today. If anything it's LESS advanced.

I get the feeling you still own a black and white tv.

 

[TheDouglas78]

Do you even watch any of todays nba? The game is way more advanced. The kinda ball skills you see in the nba now wasn't around back then.

^No one on this board knows more about "ball skills" than T.

 

[URGatorBait]

^No one on this board knows more about "ball skills" than T.

 

[t-gator]

Lol that was a terrible comeback