Baseball's Hall without Bonds or Clemens is a joke

[Since65]

Sorry, not the case. I know you are hellbent on declaring him not on steroids til 98 deapite the fact that he looked like a different person hia first spring in SF. I lterally didnt recognize him. He looked more like Bobby Bonilla than Barry Bonds.

It really doesnt matter. The HOF has spoken. You and 78 lose.

Not sure how you didn't recognize him that first year in San Francisco. Since he looked JUST like he did in Pittsburgh. Don't see the Bonilla resemblance at all.

And yes, the Hall has spoken and shown themselves to be hypocrites since they have already inducted steroid users into their ivory covered shrine. They are just rejecting "some" steroid users.

 

[78]

Law quit T-ball after his head got too big for his britches. He's hated baseball ever since.

 

[Woodroe]

Not sure how you didn't recognize him that first year in San Francisco. Since he looked just like he did in Pittsburgh.

Wait, so you're telling me he was juicing as far back as Pittsburgh???

 

[Woodroe]

1989

1990

1991

1992

1993

1994

Any questions?

 

[Since65]

Wait, so you're telling me he was juicing as far back as Pittsburgh???

No, I'm pointing out that he didn't look "like a different person" during his early years in San Francisco versus his last years in Pittsburgh as had been proposed by another poster.

 

[Woodroe]

No, I'm pointing out that he didn't look "like a different person" during his early years in San Francisco versus his last years in Pittsburgh as had been proposed by another poster.

Sorry, I lost you with my sarcasm. I knew what you were saying. You were just wrong though. Check out the timeline above.

 

[Since65]

1989

1990

1991

1992

1993

1994

Any questions?

Let me just say that I put a lot more credibility in the work of two respected professional journalists who wrote an exhaustively researched book about Bonds history with PED's than I do with the opinions of random fans with an axe to grind.

 

[Woodroe]

Let me just say that I put a lot more credibility in the work of two respected professional journalists who wrote an exhaustively researched book about Bonds history with PED's than I do with the opinions of random fans with an axe to grind.

So nothing to say about the pictures though. Photoshopped, right? Natural progression for a guy going into his 30s, right? No? Not even an attempt at deflection? Obfuscation? Redirect?

 

[rogdochar]

Steroids allowed records to be broken by fraudulent power. They are not something to be respected.
All those years 60 HRs in one season was unattainable (34 years' span). Babe's record broken slightly by Maris' 61. Then 37 years until McQuire hit his 70. Then only 3 years 'til Bonds broke that with 73. Then once steroids were banned it has stretched 15 years with no 60 HR hitter.

Another notice: Throughout its history, MLB has had only 2 players make the 30/30 Club (30+ HRs & 30+ SBs)
5 times >> Barry Bonds was one and Bobby Bonds the other.??

 

[Woodroe]

Steroids allowed records to be broken by fraudulent power. They are not something to be respected.
All those years 60 HRs in one season was unattainable (34 years' span). Babe's record broken slightly by Maris' 61. Then 37 years until McQuire hit his 70. Then only 3 years 'til Bonds broke that with 73. Then once steroids were banned it has stretched 15 years with no 60 HR hitter.

Another notice: Throughout its history, MLB has had only 2 players make the 30/30 Club (30+ HRs & 30+ SBs)
5 times >> Barry Bonds was one and Bobby Bonds the other.??

The Bonds boys are the only ones. Soriano 4x, HoJo 3x, no one else more than 2x

 

[Since65]

So nothing to say about the pictures though. Photoshopped, right? Natural progression for a guy going into his 30s, right? No? Not even an attempt at deflection? Obfuscation? Redirect?

No....no need for further comment. The random photos you posted hold no more weight than the ones I posted. I don't see the body progression that points to steroid use during the mid-90's. Clearly you do.

You are convinced he started juicing early. I hold to a later date. The later date has more substantive "proof" (see Game of Shadows) but I can't prove that he wasn't using PED's in the early 90's. It is a fact that his relationship with the Balco lab that provided the creme/clear did not begin until around 2000.

I believe Bonds and Clemens were great players even without steroids. I'm guessing you don't agree. I don't think we're going to convince each other to change our minds.

I do believe the Hall of Fame has a steroid problem. They have already elected guys who were rumored to have used while keeping out others that they believe they "know" used. They either need to ban every player from that era or admit that steroids were an epidemic during that time and remove that as a criteria for admission. They can't prove who did or who didn't use.

 

[78]

All these dated photos of Bonds. Lol, so scientific. I'll bet you guys think Jordan roided up, too. Look at him in '87 and then in '95. It couldn't have been aging or hitting the gym.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

No, I'm pointing out that he didn't look "like a different person" during his early years in San Francisco versus his last years in Pittsburgh as had been proposed by another poster.

Sorry, 92 instead of 94.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

All these dated photos of Bonds. Lol, so scientific. I'll bet you guys think Jordan roided up, too. Look at him in '87 and then in '95. It couldn't have been aging or hitting the gym.

so now you're to the point of arguing that Bonds really didn't do steroids?

 

[78]

so now you're to the point of arguing that Bonds really didn't do steroids?

I'm beyond that. I think he should run for office.

Seriously, what I am arguing is the notion that if he has added bulk it's all from roids and that it had to have started prior to '98, which is when he tacitly acknowledges he began juicing.

 

[78]

BTW, I find it interesting that no one wants to talk about the Rocket.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

BTW, I find it interesting that no one wants to talk about the Rocket.

Same thing, no one cares. He cheated and he will never be in the HOF.

 

[78]

Same thing, no one cares. He cheated and he will never be in the HOF.

No one cares and yet you and others here have helped get this thread to 100 posts and nearly 1,200 views.

 

[divits]

It all come down to the question, "Is using steroids cheating or not? And if it's cheating then why should you be rewarded for it by being placed in the Hall of Fame?"

The argument that the steroids didn't help players perform better and break records is not based on any kind of logic at all. If they didn't help then the players wouldn't have continued using them. We wouldn't have seen the spate of home runs by multiple steroid users in such a short span of baseball history and then the sharp drop off by those same players once the roid controversy was addressed and the players stopped taking them.

I'll ask again, should Olympic athletes be allowed to keep medals won when taking steroids? It was cheating then and it's cheating now.

 

[Double Gator Dad]

Baseball has rules, players violate rules, players should suffer the consequences......

In today's culture where rules have become suggestions and laws are open to consideration, it doesn't surprise me that many want to pretend that these guys didn't do anything wrong. Although I clearly have a problem with it, most baseball fans I know don't believe in rules so I am sure they will get in soon.

A baseball hall of fame that includes blatant cheaters is a joke.