Recruiting Specifically, what has Mullen not done right?

[soflagator]

Ok......... waiting till next year....to get all the good guys........ I hope Kirby, Saban, and Dabo start using this new age recruiting process.

Don’t have time to look up all of their opening class comments, but here are a few exerpts from Smart’s on his 2016 transition group.

On the number of players in this 2016 class...
"It's always hard to say at this point. You'd like to get a few more, add a few more. We're not in desperation mode by any means. I'm not in a hurry, I'm not in panic mode. I'm completely comfortable if we end up anywhere from 18, 19, 20, 21 - anywhere in there, I'm good with that. We're not going to rush off and make any reaches. I think it's important in your first year to have those.To have those spots available for next year when you get a full recruiting cycle - I've talked to a lot of guys that have been in a similar situation I've been in. A mistake they made was to try to fill holes, fill spots, and when you do that you hurt next year's signing class, which I anticipate being one of our better ones because it's our first full recruiting cycle."

How’s your morning?

 

[lizardbreath]

200 or so yards a game isnt passing well, its iust two or three passes from the Chumpzone.

BTW, Mulkinz actually passed worse than..... wait for it.... Nussdump and Franks last year.

And the year before.

That is a legitimate concern. I'm hopeful though that a QB steps forward and provides DM with the level of play that makes a viable passing game an actual possibility. To his credit, DM has shown the ability to adjust to the strengths of his players, and thereby find ways to generate points. But I'm going to be a little nervous about the passing game until I see some success on the field. I don't love the concept of the RO in general, but I think DM is doing very well so far. If we average 400-450 yards and 30+ points a game this season, I'll be happy no matter how we got there.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

I believe offense sells tickets but defense wins championships.

So you missed the Spurrier years not to mention the Muschamp years?

 

[B52G8rAC]

So you missed the Spurrier years not to mention the Muschamp years?

I don't remember Spurrier defenses giving up yardage until we were ahead by 35 points. He won our first MNC by playing smash mouth defense on the girls team from FSCW. Yeah, I remember. Muschamp went 11-1 with just defense. I didn't no offense; I expect a touchdown every time the defense gets them the ball. But I expect the defense to get the ball back on the opponents side of the field on every possession; until we are ahead by 35 points.

 

[GatorJB]

The only maybe questionable things Mullen has done was to push Seider out for Knox and also bringing in Grantham as a DC. Knox is a good coach, but is he better than Seider? I don't know. Seider has a very strong reputation for being a great RB coach and recruiter, but Knox seems like a good coach and he has an established relationship with Mullen already. This decision will probably work out fine, but Seider definitely was a guy most of us hoped would stick around.

Also bringing in Grantham is somewhat questionable. He's a good DC with some success, but he doesn't have the reputation of being a great DC. Since he was hired, I've read a few articles about his limitations as a DC, and there's a reason why he is a career journeyman DC and isn't getting looks to be a head coach. Choking hand motions aside, this hire is maybe the most questionable of Mullen's decisions, but it's too early to tell if it is a bad one.

I agree that overall he's pretty much done everything right so far, and it's worth noting that his first recruiting class is better talent wise than any of McElwain's 3 class. That is a huge step in the right direction.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

I don't remember Spurrier defenses giving up yardage until we were ahead by 35 points. He won our first MNC by playing smash mouth defense on the girls team from FSCW. Yeah, I remember. Muschamp went 11-1 with just defense. I didn't no offense; I expect a touchdown every time the defense gets them the ball. But I expect the defense to get the ball back on the opponents side of the field on every possession; until we are ahead by 35 points.

Do you remember championship after championship under Spurrier and zero championships under Muschamp? Spurrier taught me much about football and sports in general during his tenure at UF. One of those things is that I now think that old coaching bromide you quoted is a con.

I think the truth is that offense wins championships and defense saves bad coaches their jobs. You need a great offense to win a championship. A great defense keeps games even losses close and keeps coaches like Muschamp who put all their eggs in the defense basket in jobs. Also of course most good coaches repeat the bromide because they want the next Muschamp to get the next job NOT the next Spurrier.

 

[Theologator]

I guess that could be it....I'm kinda saying that because more than a few on this board were saying that next year we will have the #1 class almost like we didn't really want it this year or something....In my book you grab EVERYTHING you can get your hands on when it come to recruiting......

The one disappointment I had is that despite several advantages - previous NC experience at UF, SEC experience including ongoing familiarity and relationships in the region, more time, more staff, etc. his first class was roughly speaking worse or not much better than F$U, UCLA, Ut, Oregon, A&M or Nebraska (the other significant programs in transition.)

But that has mostly to do with class size. Average stars we were the best of that group and 7th overall per Rivals. So, no biggie.

I agree he didn’t intentionally diminish the class to boost next year, which wouldn’t be wise, but I’m fine with being selective knowing you’ll need the space next year. Plus, he didn’t know what he had on the roster. He’s still learning who is good and who is responding to the new opportunities.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

Too many unaccounted areas in your hypothetical. How good was the defense? Special teams? How many athletes did he surround the "good" quarterback with? Who did we lose to? How did we lose?

You're making the point I was trying to get across.....all of those are controlled by the Head Coach....not just the QB coach,,,,,Hal Mumme and Mike Leach are great QB coaches but I doubt either will ever win a NC.....

 

[Concrete Helmet]

Don’t have time to look up all of their opening class comments, but here are a few exerpts from Smart’s on his 2016 transition group.

On the number of players in this 2016 class...
"It's always hard to say at this point. You'd like to get a few more, add a few more. We're not in desperation mode by any means. I'm not in a hurry, I'm not in panic mode. I'm completely comfortable if we end up anywhere from 18, 19, 20, 21 - anywhere in there, I'm good with that. We're not going to rush off and make any reaches. I think it's important in your first year to have those.To have those spots available for next year when you get a full recruiting cycle - I've talked to a lot of guys that have been in a similar situation I've been in. A mistake they made was to try to fill holes, fill spots, and when you do that you hurt next year's signing class, which I anticipate being one of our better ones because it's our first full recruiting cycle."

How’s your morning?

Great just like Kirby's first class....Might want to look that one up and make sure were comparing Apples to Apples......Kirby signed three 5 stars and 21 total players.....oh, btw he finished ranked 9th....just sayin...

 

[Theologator]

I am pleased that there have been no significant injuries or disciplinary issues. It’s early yet, summer is coming, but so far so good. Kudos to S&C and the trainers on the injuries and kudos to the structure for implementing the expectations etc. All of that flows from the HBC.

 

[78]

You're making the point I was trying to get across.....all of those are controlled by the Head Coach....not just the QB coach,,,,,Hal Mumme and Mike Leach are great QB coaches but I doubt either will ever win a NC.....

I thought the question was my reaction if he consistently rang up nine to 10 wins a season.

That's a step in the right direction now but not what we want ultimately. There's probably unanimous agreement on that.

 

[soflagator]

Great just like Kirby's first class....Might want to look that one up and make sure were comparing Apples to Apples......Kirby signed three 5 stars and 21 total players.....oh, btw he finished ranked 9th....just sayin...

Already refuted several times, but what the hell...

Smart was handed a class that already included several 5* players, including a top flight QB. He did a good job of keeping things together, but landed a total of 8 players. 2 (5*s), 2 (4*s), 3 (3*s) and 1 (2*). He landed Hardman as Nauta was a package with Eason and had been the entire process.

Mullen landed 11 total players , including 8 (4*s) and 2 (3*s). And in stark contrast, Mullen had to go and replace his QB due to fit.

Different starting points, different circumstances. And none of this has anything to do with the original argument that you insist on taking to the mat...that top coaches should take everything that they can in a transition class and would never even think of foregoing a few questionable commits for the sake of the next class. I used a real coach--one whom you'd just referenced--to prove how foolish and wrong that is. While I'm certain that you won't, I have a sliver of hope that you'll let this die and move on to a different discussion like baking or physics or something.

 

[Chomper]

I, like most of my Gator friends, am in a wait and see mode. I didn't like the Muschamp hire because no hbc experience and geesh another DC as head coach following the Zook fiasco. I didn't like the McElwain hire because he had less than impressive record at CSU and he looks goofy. But as a good Gator I climbed on board with both hires and with, in retrospect, unrealistic hopes. The crash in both cases was painful and I have learned my lesson. So far I feel good about what I have seen from Mullen, but wait and see are still my words of the day.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

Different starting points, different circumstances. And none of this has anything to do with the original argument that you insist on taking to the mat...that top coaches should take everything that they can in a transition class and would never even think of foregoing a few questionable commits for the sake of the next class. I used a real coach--one whom you'd just referenced--to prove how foolish and

Why do you keep moving the goal post and changing the circumstances to fit your argument......It's not working because numbers are numbers and for that matter both Kirby and Mullen came from the SEC West.....except that Mullen had 3 distinct advantages over Kirby despite getting a much lower ranked class...
1. Mullen was already a HC.....Kirby was not.
2. Mullen has coached more recently at his new job(Kirby coached at UGA in 2005) Mullen 2008 at UF.....
3. Mullen is at UF.....SMACK IN THE MIDDLE of the best recruiting state in the country with a depleted roster that needs 3/4 overhauling....kids are always crawling all over UF much more so than UGA...

It's like you're trying to argue with science or something....I don't get it....

 

[78]

Why do you keep moving the goal post and changing the circumstances to fit your argument......It's not working because numbers are numbers and for that matter both Kirby and Mullen came from the SEC West.....except that Mullen had 3 distinct advantages over Kirby despite getting a much lower ranked class...
1. Mullen was already a HC.....Kirby was not.
2. Mullen has coached more recently at his new job(Kirby coached at UGA in 2005) Mullen 2008 at UF.....
3. Mullen is at UF.....SMACK IN THE MIDDLE of the best recruiting state in the country with a depleted roster that needs 3/4 overhauling....kids are always crawling all over UF much more so than UGA...

It's like you're trying to argue with science or something....I don't get it....

I don't either -- your reply, that is. What makes you think Mullen can just snap his fingers and have recruits fall in line? It takes one or two seasons to build excitement and mojo. This isn't Urban Meyer's Florida and Mullen isn't yet rock star material.

I grant you Smart's energy and enthusiasm has paid dividends, offset by some boneheaded in-game decisions.

Mullen appears headed in the same direction. Let's hope that's without the sideline screwups.

 

[Theologator]

I thought the question was my reaction if he consistently rang up nine to 10 wins a season.

That's a step in the right direction now but not what we want ultimately. There's probably unanimous agreement on that.

9-10 win seasons are not created equally. Mac did that but, as has become abundantly clear, the program was not moving in the right direction. 10 wins with momentum, with a close loss or win in the SECCG, would be a whole different thing.

And he’ll have to win some hat games (where we can go out and buy new championship hats, either SEC or NC). If he can’t get over that jump this fan base will get restless and mutinous.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

9-10 win seasons are not created equally. Mac did that but, as has become abundantly clear, the program was not moving in the right direction. 10 wins with momentum, with a close loss or win in the SECCG, would be a whole different thing.

And he’ll have to win some hat games (where we can go out and buy new championship hats, either SEC or NC). If he can’t get over that jump this fan base will get restless and mutinous.

He must not only do that but do it with credible offense. Winning championships would allow him to get by with shoddy offense for a bit, but it would take about 10+ years of SEC National championships 2 out of every 3 seasons for this fan base to accept shoddy offense every year. And really it would not be this fan base accepting it. It would be a completely different and smaller fan base. Some of us old guys who remember the Spurrier years would have died off of course, but many others would just fade away leaving a fan base of some new comers and a few old timers who are willing to put up with such a product.

 

[AugustaGator]

Hello. Yes, may I speak with Jim?

 

[krisl648]

I'm cautiously optimistic. Want to see results on the field.

He obviously can find his way to the dentist so he has that going for him!!!!

 

[Gator Fever]

Have the top players on offense be prepared to play at least mediocre in a scrimmage against the defense? :(