Arizona Cardinals hire away DC Patrick Toney; Austin Armstrong new DC

[gatorev12]

I don't think anyone is complaining about Toney leaving--and if Napier quietly encouraged it behind the scenes, that's encouraging self-evaluation for a unit that underperformed at times last year, to the detriment of the team's success. I also don't think the timing was coincidental: Napier didn't want to throw off the recruiting class and make this change before Signing Day.

But hiring Armstrong is underwhelming and all of us know it. I get ox wants us to be less miserable & it's not a bad objective in and of itself...but real talk: how is a totally unproven 29 year old Sunbelt Conference coach going to turn things around for a unit that will have a LOT of young players next season?

Coordinators frequently bounce around--but let's look at the competition from the last 12 months:

Bama got Kevin Steele...needs no introduction. Proven experience at multiple Power 5 schools.

LSU's DC was a former NFL coach for the Chiefs with SEC experience prior to that. Proven experience at every level.

Ole Miss got Pete Golding...Bama's former DC. Proven experience.

Auburn got Ron Roberts from Baylor--previously with Napier at Louisiana. Proven Power 5 experience.

Tennessee got Tim Banks (2 years ago) from Penn State. Proven Power 5 experience in the Big 10.

Texas A&M got DJ Durkin from Ole Miss. Shouldn't need an introduction to Gator fans; but proven Power 5 experience.

Mizzou got Blake Baker (internal promotion), but he'd previously been the DC at scUM and a LB coach at LSU.

I'm not saying I automatically expect the guy to suck because he's young...but is it too much to ask for/expect a prestige Power 5 program like Florida to act like a program with multiple national championships?? Why are we instantly hiring an unproven DC in a league where almost all the most recent hires have had Power 5 DC experience?

I WANT Napier to succeed. I think he's a definite upgrade in every way on our most recent coaches over the last decade, especially the last two, who were unquestionably lazy at key areas of their jobs. Napier is most certainly a hard worker; so it really baffles my mind that this dude is the best he could come up with on a hiring move that's almost certainly been floated about for longer than just the last 24 hours.

 

[soflagator]

Any word on how the players are feeling about the hire? Too soon?

My only concern in making a move here is that Toney was heavily involved in recruiting. Obviously not much we can do about someone who gets poached, but I did like the idea of continuity. That said, I do feel like kids are committing to and playing for Billy Napier. So I’m hoping it’s a seamless upgrade.

 

[oxrageous]

I don't think anyone is complaining about Toney leaving--and if Napier quietly encouraged it behind the scenes, that's encouraging self-evaluation for a unit that underperformed at times last year, to the detriment of the team's success. I also don't think the timing was coincidental: Napier didn't want to throw off the recruiting class and make this change before Signing Day.

But hiring Armstrong is underwhelming and all of us know it. I get ox wants us to be less miserable & it's not a bad objective in and of itself...but real talk: how is a totally unproven 29 year old Sunbelt Conference coach going to turn things around for a unit that will have a LOT of young players next season?

Coordinators frequently bounce around--but let's look at the competition from the last 12 months:

Bama got Kevin Steele...needs no introduction. Proven experience at multiple Power 5 schools.

LSU's DC was a former NFL coach for the Chiefs with SEC experience prior to that. Proven experience at every level.

Ole Miss got Pete Golding...Bama's former DC. Proven experience.

Auburn got Ron Roberts from Baylor--previously with Napier at Louisiana. Proven Power 5 experience.

Tennessee got Tim Banks (2 years ago) from Penn State. Proven Power 5 experience in the Big 10.

Texas A&M got DJ Durkin from Ole Miss. Shouldn't need an introduction to Gator fans; but proven Power 5 experience.

Mizzou got Blake Baker (internal promotion), but he'd previously been the DC at scUM and a LB coach at LSU.

I'm not saying I automatically expect the guy to suck because he's young...but is it too much to ask for/expect a prestige Power 5 program like Florida to act like a program with multiple national championships?? Why are we instantly hiring an unproven DC in a league where almost all the most recent hires have had Power 5 DC experience?

I WANT Napier to succeed. I think he's a definite upgrade in every way on our most recent coaches over the last decade, especially the last two, who were unquestionably lazy at key areas of their jobs. Napier is most certainly a hard worker; so it really baffles my mind that this dude is the best he could come up with on a hiring move that's almost certainly been floated about for longer than just the last 24 hours.

If UF had hired ANY of the coaches you mention above, the same people would still be bitching because they don't like the head of the snake.

"Oh sure, we hire some old failed retread that was fired back in 2003!"

And by the way, most of those coaches you listed suck balls, despite their experience. If they were worth a sh!t they'd be head coaches now. Napier obviously likes young guys, if none of them turn out it will cost him his job.

 

[gatorev12]

If UF had hired ANY of the coaches you mention above, the same people would still be bitching because they don't like the head of the snake.

"Oh sure, we hire some old failed retread that was fired back in 2003!"

Maybe you're right.
But then again, they'd be more obviously the ones being unreasonable in this situation since that list speaks for itself: Power 5 experience in this conference goes a long way and whether the program is established or middle-tier, all the recent openings have been filled with guys who have had experience.

Napier isn't really doing himself a lot of credit or inspiring much confidence with this hire, as I suspect even you know.

 

[LagoonGator68]

Maybe you're right.
But then again, they'd be more obviously the ones being unreasonable in this situation since that list speaks for itself: Power 5 experience in this conference goes a long way and whether the program is established or middle-tier, all the recent openings have been filled with guys who have had experience.

Napier isn't really doing himself a lot of credit or inspiring much confidence with this hire, as I suspect even you know.

Power 5 experience is overrated…just look at 3rd and Granthum and that mo-fuching-ron, money down, Sidehat!

 

[t-gator]

Put me in the camp of being excited. Not only is it encouraging to know Napier is man enough to make tough decisions. But this dude obviously balled out at southern miss. Why do some of you guys prefer "young" and "innovative" oc. But you want an old DC that's already been fired a handful of times. Kevin Steele was terrible at Clemson,Baylor and didn't get retained at his last stop. Freaking Pete Golding was told to shop around. I'd rather roll the dice with a guy like this than end up with another Todd Grantham

 

[williston_gator]

This would be a solid hire tbh.

 

[FireFoley]

Put me in the camp of being excited. Not only is it encouraging to know Napier is man enough to make tough decisions. But this dude obviously balled out at southern miss. Why do some of you guys prefer "young" and "innovative" oc. But you want an old DC that's already been fired a handful of times. Kevin Steele was terrible at Clemson,Baylor and didn't get retained at his last stop. Freaking Pete Golding was told to shop around. I'd rather roll the dice with a guy like this than end up with another Todd Grantham

I mentioned it early on is this thread. Experience at a big level, etc. is overrated. you can coach or you can't. Would much rather have a guy who can do more with less or more with what he has than have to depend on always needing the very best players. Sometimes, nothing is better than something and UF has had plenty of Asst. coaches the past 15 years where nothing would have been better than the something.

 

[soflagator]

Put me in the camp of being excited. Not only is it encouraging to know Napier is man enough to make tough decisions. But this dude obviously balled out at southern miss. Why do some of you guys prefer "young" and "innovative" oc. But you want an old DC that's already been fired a handful of times. Kevin Steele was terrible at Clemson,Baylor and didn't get retained at his last stop. Freaking Pete Golding was told to shop around. I'd rather roll the dice with a guy like this than end up with another Todd Grantham

Agree. I’ve seen several here that want Bud Foster. Guy is 73, gets around with a walker and has Steel Reserve on a slow drip from one of those beer can hats. But people pull up early 2000s clips and are all in on him.

 

[FireFoley]

This would be a solid hire tbh.

Good idea so Sling Blade would not have to coach against him at another D 5 school and potentially get beat.

 

[aka]

UPDATE: I texted Law. His response was: "Sidehat is ass"

I thought he liked big ass.

 

[cover2]

My bad for expecting someone at a top-10 job in college football to have more than 2 years of experience, you keep doing you though.

Forget about the hire for a minute…


Dislike Prostitutes???

 

[GatorJ]

Any word on how the players are feeling about the hire? Too soon?

From what I’ve read, it’s neither joy or anger. Everyone just kind of seems kind of OK about it.

 

[URGatorBait]

From what I’ve read, it’s neither joy or anger. Everyone just kind of seems kind of OK about it.

That means they knew it was coming, prolly

 

[TLB]

Who is the established, experienced, superstar TE coach out there that we should be hiring? Let's hear some names.

I'd be willing to take a chance on a no-coaching experience guy, if it's the right guy for tight ends. Say, Tony Gonzalez or Gronk.

 

[no1g8r]

Head coach who hired Toney. Do with it what you may

In both videos, this guy checks out the player's "package" before looking him in the eye. NTTAWWT, but I'm not sure I'd want him as my "position" coach, much less my "head" coach.

 

[I Have No Friends :(]

We screamed for years <SNIP>

We screamed for years for Mullen to fire Todd, he didn't, we bitched... JUSTIFIED - Todd sucked and broke the defensive side of the ball via recruiting
We screamed for years for Mullen to be fired, he was, we celebrated.... for about 24 hours. JUSTIFIED - Mullen sucked and nearly broke the entire program
We hired Napier, we bitched... JUSTIFIED - Napier was a reach who should have cut his teeth at a mid-tier school in a power conference first
He hired Toney, we pretty much bitched... INACCURATE - Toney was considered a rising DC star. There were mixed feelings with his hiring, mostly positive
We screamed for Napier to fire Toney, he didn't, we bitched... JUSTIFIED - The guy just underperformed across the board
Toney get's hired by the Cardinals... we celebrate... for a nanosecond. PARTY!!! WOOHOO! Bye Felicia!
Napier hires Armstrong... we bitch JUSTIFIED - This is UF; we shouldn't be taking gambles on 29 y/o kids with two years experience coaching meh defenses in the Sun Belt
TE guy goes to Cardinals too... we say, "who was that guy anyway" in pseudo-celebrations PARTY!! WOOHOO! He sucked out loud as well
Napier will hire someone to replace TE guy... Since this is an important position in Napier's offense, we need to bring in a damn good recruiter and teacher. Will we?

Prediction when Napier hires new TE guy (or failure to hire new TE guy and just add the responsibility to an existing coach on staff): we will bitch. That's on Napier, not us

Disclaimer: I'm pretty positive I missed some bitching. Any errors or omissions in/of examples of bitching are the sole responsibility of the author... it's on me, i'll do better, i'll get it fixed. You forgot to mention the bitching done by the bitchers who bitch at the bitching, otherwise solid post!

 

[G8trwood]

I was going to go apply, I mean I am willing to fail for a couple million. But apparently it is national margarita day at the beach. They took the keys to my golf cart….. :)

 

[soflagator]

I was going to go apply, I mean I am willing to fail for a couple million. But apparently it is national margarita day at the beach. They took the keys to my golf cart….. :)

You had my vote.

Really anybody other than @jdh5484.

 

[gatorev12]

I mentioned it early on is this thread. Experience at a big level, etc. is overrated. you can coach or you can't. Would much rather have a guy who can do more with less or more with what he has than have to depend on always needing the very best players. Sometimes, nothing is better than something and UF has had plenty of Asst. coaches the past 15 years where nothing would have been better than the something.

I really have to disagree with the assertion that experience is irrelevant in coaching.

Let's just admit that Nick Saban or wouldn't make New Mexico into a college football juggernaut in 2 seasons; and that popping an objectively "good" coach onto an objectively "bad" team wouldn't instantly improve results. Players matter and the ability to execute matters.

College coaches (be they assistants or head coaches) need to do a lot. They need to coach up their players, they need to scheme, they need to make adjustments, they need to recruit, they need to mentor, they need to watch film, and they need to do it YoY. A guy could be the best DC in the country for 3 consecutive years...but in year 4, lose some of the top talent to the NFL, have an untimely injury, and also have a handful of 5* recruits turn out to be busts...and be out of a job in year 5. It happens. The quality of the coach didn't change, but the situation sure did.

Where experience matters is the same in every profession: you recognize things better, faster, and more efficiently. A guy who 3 years ago was coaching a Top 25 defense in the Big 10 will recognize the 3rd down audibles to a RPO because he saw Ohio State run it with Justin Fields...and will know which adjustment to make in the second half because he's already had to figure out what went wrong. A newbie from a 3rd tier conference might figure that out after the fact, but in the heat of the moment? That's asking a lot.

If it were that easy to just be "good," then you'd see more people jump into the college & pro ranks and instantly do well. It just doesn't work that way and never has. Sure, there's the occasional high-flier & few others who get lucky; but for the most part, experience matters. No different than you'll have 3* who outperform 5* in every year and every recruiting cycle...but by and large? Getting the best talent matters.