Meet Caitlyn Jenner

Swamp Queen · Jun 10, 2015

AlexDaGator;n232459 said:
We love to accept what scientists say because we're suckers for the white lab coats. But what they say changes all the time. Remember when the key to weight loss was sugar free? Then it was low-fat. Now it's low carb. It will be something else soon enough.

Scientists used to say cholesterol was bad. Salt was bad. Now, maybe not so much.

Scientists used to say gay was a mental illness. Not anymore. I think they got that one right.

But scientists used to say that transgendered was an illness too. They have retreated from that position. Have they gotten it right, or is that subject to change at some point in the future?

Take a deep breath, open your mind, and think about this:

There is a condition out there where folks who were born in healthy bodies wish they were disabled. This is not a joke, I'm not making it up. Sometimes they pretend to be disabled, even getting married and never telling their spouse that they are not really disabled. They live in terror that they might be discovered some day. Sometimes they try to hurt themselves so that their actual body will match what they are in their minds. Some will ask doctors to amputate perfectly good limbs. Like a transsexual, they were born in the wrong bodies. They want their physical bodies to match their mental bodies.

So. What do we do? Try to cure them as if this is an illness? Go ahead and amputate a leg?

I remember reading about a guy a few years ago. He wanted to be a baby. He had a giant crib, wore diapers, suckled a bottle, the whole 9 yards. In his mind, he was a baby. So was that just a strange fetish or is he trapped in the wrong body? Do we try to cure him, or let medicaid pay for a nanny to change his diapers and give him his bottle?

How about something a lot more common, like anorexia? I've seen girls, nothing but skin and bone, look into a mirror and see fat. They are starving themselves, killing themselves. In their minds, they are fat. You can't convince them that they need a cheeseburger. Not with pictures, not with mirrors, not with a body fat index and calipers. Their mind tells them they are fat.

I'm a compassionate person who thinks this country has really failed our mentally ill. Are folks like these mentally ill? What is best for them and for our society? Treating them as if they were mentally ill or helping make their bodies match their brains?

Is there a continuum where transvestite is OK but transsexual is not? Or maybe changing your gender is OK but cutting off a leg is not OK?

I'm certainly not any smarter than the brains in the white lab coats. I don't know what the answer is. It's arrogant to presume you know for sure. Currently, we are lumping transsexual together sexual orientation. Since we have come to a consensus as a society that sexual orientation is something you are born with and different sexual orientations are OK, we are moving towards acceptance of transsexuals the same we we now accept gays, lesbians, and bisexuals. But this is NOT a sexual orientation. Jenner is a heterosexual, just like me. It's a body issue. Entirely different from sexual orientation.

I don't know what's best for the person trapped in the wrong body nor do I know what's best for society. I do know that history shows that the scientists get stuff wrong all the time. What I do suspect is whatever the right answer is for changing your gender is also the right answer for cutting off a healthy leg. It's too perfect of an analogy for different right answers.

If Caitlyn wants to be called Caitlyn, I will certainly respect that. Willard Romney wanted to be called Mitt. Norma Jean wanted to be called Marilyn. Aaron wanted to be called Ox.

I hope Caitlyn finds peace and happiness, if that is what Caitlyn is seeking. Heck, I hope everybody finds peace and happiness, if that is what they are seeking.

Alex.

Very well said!

LagoonGator68 · Jun 10, 2015

My sweet momma said, "be careful what you read, watch, think, and the people you associate with as it can become who you are and what you do."

Ray Finkle · Jun 10, 2015

LagoonGator68;n233199 said:
My sweet momma said, "be careful what you read, watch, think, and the people you associate with as it can become who you are and what you do."

And still you visit this site :crazy:

Concrete Helmet · Jun 10, 2015

GatorJ;n233185 said:
I agree that taxpayer dollars shouldn't go to fixing the body. The body is a symptom. It should go to therapy and treatment on the mind.

HOWEVER, engaging that treatment doesn't guarantee any sort of efficacy in outcome. So, if a person decides they want to go through physical transformation and they want to pay for it, that's their decision. And nobody else's.

I think most people could live with this but we could all do without the media hype and some like myself are very skeptical about Jenner's true intentions.

oxrageous · Jun 11, 2015

Interesting article, although the author will now be labeled a bigot.

When â€œthe tumult and shouting dies,â€ it proves not easy nor wise to live in a counterfeit sexual garb. The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned peopleâ€”extending over thirty years and conducted in Sweden, where the culture is strongly supportive of the transgenderedâ€”documents their lifelong mental unrest. Ten to fifteen years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to twenty times that of comparable peers.

The larger issue is the meme itself. The idea that oneâ€™s sex is fluid and a matter open to choice runs unquestioned through our culture and is reflected everywhere in the media, the theater, the classroom, and in many medical clinics. It has taken on cult-like features: its own special lingo, internet chat rooms providing slick answers to new recruits, and clubs for easy access to dresses and styles supporting the sex change. It is doing much damage to families, adolescents, and children and should be confronted as an opinion without biological foundation wherever it emerges.

But gird your loins if you would confront this matter. Hell hath no fury like a vested interest masquerading as a moral principle.

stephenPE · Jun 11, 2015

Originally posted by AlexDaGator View Post
We love to accept what scientists say because we're suckers for the white lab coats. But what they say changes all the time. Remember when the key to weight loss was sugar free? Then it was low-fat. Now it's low carb. It will be something else soon enough.

Scientists used to say cholesterol was bad. Salt was bad. Now, maybe not so much.

Scientists used to say gay was a mental illness. Not anymore. I think they got that one right.

But scientists used to say that transgendered was an illness too. They have retreated from that position. Have they gotten it right, or is that subject to change at some point in the future?

Take a deep breath, open your mind, and think about this:

There is a condition out there where folks who were born in healthy bodies wish they were disabled. This is not a joke, I'm not making it up. Sometimes they pretend to be disabled, even getting married and never telling their spouse that they are not really disabled. They live in terror that they might be discovered some day. Sometimes they try to hurt themselves so that their actual body will match what they are in their minds. Some will ask doctors to amputate perfectly good limbs. Like a transsexual, they were born in the wrong bodies. They want their physical bodies to match their mental bodies.

So. What do we do? Try to cure them as if this is an illness? Go ahead and amputate a leg?

I remember reading about a guy a few years ago. He wanted to be a baby. He had a giant crib, wore diapers, suckled a bottle, the whole 9 yards. In his mind, he was a baby. So was that just a strange fetish or is he trapped in the wrong body? Do we try to cure him, or let medicaid pay for a nanny to change his diapers and give him his bottle?

How about something a lot more common, like anorexia? I've seen girls, nothing but skin and bone, look into a mirror and see fat. They are starving themselves, killing themselves. In their minds, they are fat. You can't convince them that they need a cheeseburger. Not with pictures, not with mirrors, not with a body fat index and calipers. Their mind tells them they are fat.

I'm a compassionate person who thinks this country has really failed our mentally ill. Are folks like these mentally ill? What is best for them and for our society? Treating them as if they were mentally ill or helping make their bodies match their brains?

Is there a continuum where transvestite is OK but transsexual is not? Or maybe changing your gender is OK but cutting off a leg is not OK?

I'm certainly not any smarter than the brains in the white lab coats. I don't know what the answer is. It's arrogant to presume you know for sure. Currently, we are lumping transsexual together sexual orientation. Since we have come to a consensus as a society that sexual orientation is something you are born with and different sexual orientations are OK, we are moving towards acceptance of transsexuals the same we we now accept gays, lesbians, and bisexuals. But this is NOT a sexual orientation. Jenner is a heterosexual, just like me. It's a body issue. Entirely different from sexual orientation.

I don't know what's best for the person trapped in the wrong body nor do I know what's best for society. I do know that history shows that the scientists get stuff wrong all the time. What I do suspect is whatever the right answer is for changing your gender is also the right answer for cutting off a healthy leg. It's too perfect of an analogy for different right answers.

If Caitlyn wants to be called Caitlyn, I will certainly respect that. Willard Romney wanted to be called Mitt. Norma Jean wanted to be called Marilyn. Aaron wanted to be called Ox.

I hope Caitlyn finds peace and happiness, if that is what Caitlyn is seeking. Heck, I hope everybody finds peace and happiness, if that is what they are seeking.

Alex.

Captain Sasquatch · Jun 11, 2015

Durty South Swamp;n232538 said:
maybe you should provide the source for your statement (which was just as extreme)

Gladly.

http://www.vocativ.com/culture/lgbt/...ender-suicide/

Transgender respondents who experienced rejection by family and friends, discrimination, victimization, or violence have a higher risk of attempting suicide. 78 percent of survey respondents who suffered physical or sexual violence at school reported suicide attempts, as did 65 percent of respondents who experienced violence at work.

The link to the full report is in the article. I'm sure you won't take the time to read it, but basically it says 41% of all trans people have attempted suicide, as compared to 4.6% of the overall population, and a large majority of those have done so because of physical, emotional, or sexual abuse by friends, family, schoolmates, or coworkers.

But yeah, they're just crazy people, that's why they're attempting suicide. Never mind the fact that the close minded bigots who surround them are total c*nts about it when they find out about it. And we wonder why people say it takes courage to come out.

divits · Jun 11, 2015

Captain Sasquatch;n233449 said:
Gladly.

http://www.vocativ.com/culture/lgbt/...ender-suicide/

The link to the full report is in the article. I'm sure you won't take the time to read it, but basically it says 41% of all trans people have attempted suicide, as compared to 4.6% of the overall population, and a large majority of those have done so because of physical, emotional, or sexual abuse by friends, family, schoolmates, or coworkers.

But yeah, they're just crazy people, that's why they're attempting suicide. Never mind the fact that the close minded bigots who surround them are total c*nts about it when they find out about it. And we wonder why people say it takes courage to come out.

No doubt society's reaction to transexuals can and does have an additional effect on their suicide rates. But it's a "chicken or the egg" type of thing. As the article posted by the head of the John's Hopkins psychiatry department states, these people have mental issues long before they change their sex. And a wide ranging 30 year study done in Sweden, long known as a very accepting country for transexuals, shows that the suicide rate and mental illness rate is 20 times higher in transexuals.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

So, if it's shown that even in one of the most liberal countries in the world where gender reassignment surgery was started there is an extremely high rate of mental illness in transexuals before and after surgery, should't there at least be consideration given to the fact that perhaps gender dysmorphia is a mental disease that can be treated in other ways than drastic surgery? Because right now that is impossible in this politically correct world where those who suggest it are shouted down as bigots.

Captain Sasquatch · Jun 11, 2015

divits;n233501 said:
No doubt society's reaction to transexuals can and does have an additional effect on their suicide rates. But it's a "chicken or the egg" type of thing. As the article posted by the head of the John's Hopkins psychiatry department states, these people have mental issues long before they change their sex. And a wide ranging 30 year study done in Sweden, long known as a very accepting country for transexuals, shows that the suicide rate and mental illness rate is 20 times higher in transexuals.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

So, if it's shown that even in one of the most liberal countries in the world where gender reassignment surgery was started there is an extremely high rate of mental illness in transexuals before and after surgery, should't there at least be consideration given to the fact that perhaps gender dysmorphia is a mental disease that can be treated in other ways than drastic surgery? Because right now that is impossible in this politically correct world where those who suggest it are shouted down as bigots.

I'm sure there are mentally ill transgendered people, just like there are mentally ill people of every other type.

I'm willing to bet that the suicide rate would go down if society would chill the F out about it. So they're different than you, who cares? Seven billion people on Earth, I bet you'll find a lot more off the wall things than transgenderism among its inhabitants.

divits · Jun 11, 2015

Captain Sasquatch;n233511 said:
I'm sure there are mentally ill transgendered people, just like there are mentally ill people of every other type.

I'm willing to bet that the suicide rate would go down if society would chill the F out about it. So they're different than you, who cares? Seven billion people on Earth, I bet you'll find a lot more off the wall things than transgenderism among its inhabitants.

I believe you've missed the point but I won't argue with you about it. This thread was about transgenders, Jenner in particular. That's why we're discussing it. If I'm not being bombarded with him being a hero you won't be hearing me talk about it.

Swamp Queen · Jun 11, 2015

I went to Publix last night and when I was in the check out line I made a point of looking at each and every magazine and crappy paper that was displayed. I saw ZERO pictures or mentions of Caitlyn Jenner. I did however see several pictures/mentions of those great Christians, the Duggars, who some people say should be excused for hiding the fact that their oldest son is a child molester who assaulted his own sisters.

oxrageous · Jun 11, 2015

Swamp Queen;n233589 said:
I saw ZERO pictures or mentions of Bruce Jenner.

FIFY

-THE DUDE- · Jun 11, 2015

Captain Sasquatch · Jun 11, 2015

Swamp Queen;n233589 said:
I went to Publix last night and when I was in the check out line I made a point of looking at each and every magazine and crappy paper that was displayed. I saw ZERO pictures or mentions of Caitlyn Jenner. I did however see several pictures/mentions of those great Christians, the Duggars, who some people say should be excused for hiding the fact that their oldest son is a child molester who assaulted his own sisters.

Talk about mental illness........

oxrageous · Jun 11, 2015

Captain Sasquatch;n233622 said:
Talk about mental illness........

Your close-minded bigotry really ticks me off. How can you be so intolerant?

cornbread · Jun 11, 2015

I think we can all agree this is a focked up world with focked up people, the transgenders probably think straight people are focked up and white folks thinks that blacks are focked up and vise versa, so why care about what other people do to their bodies or who they worship, if nobody harms my family or property I could give a $hit less how you live your life