Tuesday Favorites….military strategist and tactician

[AlexDaGator]

Longstreet became the automatic scapegoat for Southerners, especially when, after the war he became a Republican and took federal jobs.

After Gettysburg, Lee sent Longstreet south to reinforce Bragg’s army south of Chattanooga. Bragg was inept, paranoid and a jealous commander. Longstreet at Chickamauga almost rolled the Union Army commanded by the equally inept Rosecrans. Were it not for George Thomas, he would have done so. But Bragg undermined Longstreet fearing he was there to spy on him and take his command. He sent him on a circuitous march up into Tennessee without adequate provisions or troops and removed the threat to Bragg’s ego.

*I know I’m not informing you of any new insights, it’s just fun to reinforce my old readings by writing about them.
wrp

Funny story.

I was in the 4th grade (3rd or 4th) and the teacher introduced her new assistant, Ms. Rosecrans. I raised my hand and asked if she was related to the famous civil war general. Her eyes bugged out and she indicates, she was. My teacher was surprised and asked her “which side” to which the assistant replied “the wrong one” which confused me at the time.

Rosecrans had some success early in the war before he sh!t the bed.


Alex.

 

[AlexDaGator]

Newt Gingrich's "alternate history" books actually really good. He had Longstreet convincing Lee to pull out of Gettysburg after the first day and moving on Washington in the manner you said... in the manner you said. In the end, the war had the same eventual outcome, but it was interesting. Same with Pearl Harbor had the Japanese followed up with another wave that hit the oil/fuel farms and dry dock facilities (both of which were farrrr more important than 8 obsolete battleships).

I love counterfactual histories.

For Japan, a third wave at Pearl followed up with attacks on the Panama Canal and the West Coast shipyards.

OR—

Hitler doesn’t declare war on the US immediately following Pearl Harbor. Instead, he disavows what the Japanese did to the US. So, Congress declares war on Japan but not on Germany (Roosevelt reads the political tea leaves and doesn’t ask). The American people don’t understand continuing Lend Lease aid to the Brits and Russkies when we’re losing our own war against the Japanese. Roosevelt figures he’ll fight an undeclared war against the U-boats and soon enough there will be enough smoke to get a declaration against Germany but how long will that take and how do the Brits and Russkies hold out with diminished US aid?


Alex.

 

[wrpgator]

Newt Gingrich's "alternate history" books actually really good. He had Longstreet convincing Lee to pull out of Gettysburg after the first day and moving on Washington in the manner you said... in the manner you said. In the end, the war had the same eventual outcome, but it was interesting. Same with Pearl Harbor had the Japanese followed up with another wave that hit the oil/fuel farms and dry dock facilities (both of which were farrrr more important than 8 obsolete battleships).

Did he have Jackson not being killed at Chancellorsville? Again, end result would have been the same but with an interesting twist maybe.

Funny story.

I was in the 4th grade (3rd or 4th) and the teacher introduced her new assistant, Ms. Rosecrans. I raised my hand and asked if she was related to the famous civil war general. Her eyes bugged out and she indicates, she was. My teacher was surprised and asked her “which side” to which the assistant replied “the wrong one” which confused me at the time.

Rosecrans had some success early in the war before he sh!t the bed.


Alex.

Any 4th grader who is familiar with Gen Rosecrans can be considered well on his way in life.

 

[Detroitgator]

Did he have Jackson not being killed at Chancellorsville? Again, end result would have been the same but with an interesting twist maybe.

Any 4th grader who is familiar with Gen Rosecrans can be considered well on his way in life.

No, he keeps the history "as is" through the first day of Gettysburg and it goes from there. It's the first book in a 3 book trilogy. Here is the summary from Wiki of the first book and how the battle played out (the other two books take it from there):

"In 1863, Robert E. Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia are victorious at the Battle of Gettysburg (not the United States' Union Army, which won in reality). Instead of attacking the Union line on July 2, 1863, Lee conducts a broad turning movement and forces the Army of the Potomac to attack him in a favorable position. Gettysburg becomes something of a footnote in the main battle, which takes place at Union Mills in Maryland. The defeat at Union Mills is a grave setback to the Union Army, but it alone does not end the war or determine its outcome."

 

[gatorev12]

Heard of him, but don’t know any of his battles or wars.

Is he thrown in for an Arab DEI contribution or was he legit deserving of being named with Caesar, Hannibal, Ghengis, Alexander, etc.?

The Arabian peninsula was sparsely populated back then. Not a lot of great walled cities or large professional standing armies for him to overcome (to keep it Muslim, not like Tamerlane’s conquests). Did he score some big wins outside Arabia? I just don’t know this guy.

Yea, he routed the Byzantine armies to conquer Syria and much of Turkey; along with Iraq and into Persia.

This was the early days of Islam, before the entire region became Muslim. Walid was pretty much the guy that made it happen--and, ironically, he beat Muhammad and the Muslims in battle prior to converting and joining forces with them.

As far as shaping world history goes, his legacy of being undefeated in battle and conquering all of Arabia and into Mesopotamia merits discussion.

 

[wrpgator]

No, he keeps the history "as is" through the first day of Gettysburg and it goes from there. It's the first book in a 3 book trilogy. Here is the summary from Wiki of the first book and how the battle played out (the other two books take it from there):

"In 1863, Robert E. Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia are victorious at the Battle of Gettysburg (not the United States' Union Army, which won in reality). Instead of attacking the Union line on July 2, 1863, Lee conducts a broad turning movement and forces the Army of the Potomac to attack him in a favorable position. Gettysburg becomes something of a footnote in the main battle, which takes place at Union Mills in Maryland. The defeat at Union Mills is a grave setback to the Union Army, but it alone does not end the war or determine its outcome."

Jackson frequently anchored Lee’s left. Had he, and not the less aggressive Ewell, been on the Reb left, day 1 of Gettysburg may have been a repeat of Chancellorsville. It was the XI Corps on the Union right in both fights.
Meade was a civil engineer, was from Pennsylvania, and knew terrain and the importance of high ground. That made the difference.

 

[Gator By Marriage]

Any 4th grader who is familiar with Gen Rosecrans can be considered well on his way in life.

Or a bit of a nerd.

(FTR - I loved my father’s collection of Civil War books - he had dozens - and I may have known who he was at that age too! Pretty sure this is the picture of him that I remember from one of my Dad’s books; I’ve always thought it was pretty unique as Civil War portraits go. )

 

[wrpgator]

Or a bit of a nerd.

(FTR - I loved my father’s collection of Civil War books - he had dozens - and I may have known who he was at that age too! Pretty sure this is the picture of him that I remember from one of my Dad’s books; I’ve always thought it was pretty unique as Civil War portraits go. )
View attachment 68550

My dad had this book early 60’s and I wore it out looking at pics and studying the maps.

When 1st grade teacher was going through early presidents, I identified our 3rd US president as “Jefferson Davis”. I knew a “Jefferson” was involved somehow.

 

[cover2]

My dad had this book early 60’s and I wore it out looking at pics and studying the maps.
View attachment 68551
When 1st grade teacher was going through early presidents, I identified our 3rd US president as “Jefferson Davis”. I knew a “Jefferson” was involved somehow.

Still have a copy of that book that I found in a bookstore on a family trip to the mountains some years back. I lost count on how many times I checked it out from the library while in elementary and Jr High School.

 

[wrpgator]

Still have a copy of that book that I found in a bookstore on a family trip to the mountains some years back. I lost count on how many times I checked it out from the library while in elementary and Jr High School.

I had my dad’s old copy—dog- eared, binding coming apart—until my youngest daughter appropriated it for her book shelf. I’m glad to let her hold it for me.

 

[cover2]

Yea, he routed the Byzantine armies to conquer Syria and much of Turkey; along with Iraq and into Persia.

This was the early days of Islam, before the entire region became Muslim. Walid was pretty much the guy that made it happen--and, ironically, he beat Muhammad and the Muslims in battle prior to converting and joining forces with them.

As far as shaping world history goes, his legacy of being undefeated in battle and conquering all of Arabia and into Mesopotamia merits discussion.

Rev, I have to say that I’m impressed with your knowledge and reference of historical military leaders worldwide. Some you have referenced I had to look up, though I’m by no means well read outside of the Greeks and Romans and WWII. You sure you didn’t get a mega box of “Famous Generals” trading cards for Christmas many years ago? Makes me wish I’d “read” Playboy a little less

 

[wrpgator]

Rev, I have to say that I’m impressed with your knowledge and reference of historical military leaders worldwide. Some you have referenced I had to look up, though I’m by no means well read outside of the Greeks and Romans and WWII. You sure you didn’t get a mega box of “Famous Generals” trading cards for Christmas many years ago? Makes me wish I’d “read” Playboy a little less

Be honest…the “reading” part was Penthouse Forum, wasn’t it?

 

[cover2]

Be honest…the “reading” part was Penthouse Forum, wasn’t it?

“Reading?” Oh yeah, reading! The Playboy interview, travel, and technology articles. Yeah, that was it!

 

[gatorev12]

Rev, I have to say that I’m impressed with your knowledge and reference of historical military leaders worldwide. Some you have referenced I had to look up, though I’m by no means well read outside of the Greeks and Romans and WWII. You sure you didn’t get a mega box of “Famous Generals” trading cards for Christmas many years ago? Makes me wish I’d “read” Playboy a little less

Thanks! Growing up, read a lot of history (with Dad's active encouragement) and the subject's always been a passion. Some of the famous non-Western ones were learned about on various deployments to the region and hearing about their exploits, then reading up from there.

This board has a lot of really knowledgeable posters on the subject though.

 

[B52G8rAC]

Thanks! Growing up, read a lot of history (with Dad's active encouragement) and the subject's always been a passion. Some of the famous non-Western ones were learned about on various deployments to the region and hearing about their exploits, then reading up from there.

This board has a lot of really knowledgeable posters on the subject though.

Yep. Seems like we have a wide variety of learned former hired killers on this board.

 

[gatorev12]

Yep. Seems like we have a wide variety of learned former hired killers on this board.

The military influence is definitely prevalent, but there's several knowledgeable students of history on here too. Alex wasn't military, but he's someone with a lot of informed knowledge, as is GBM. Those are certainly not the only two either.

 

[AlexDaGator]

My dad had this book early 60’s and I wore it out looking at pics and studying the maps.
View attachment 68551
When 1st grade teacher was going through early presidents, I identified our 3rd US president as “Jefferson Davis”. I knew a “Jefferson” was involved somehow.

This was my first Civil War book:

Alex.

 

[B52G8rAC]

This was my first Civil War book:

Alex.

Jeff is actually the one and only President.

 

[BMF]

Anyone have a good suggestion on a book about the Ottoman Empire and/or Genghis Kahn? Particularly looking for an author that's known for this type of history - I googled books on the topic and there's a 100+ different books/authors.

On the subject of the Civil War - Erik Larson has a new book coming out about the 5 months prior to the start to the Civil War and Lincoln's election: (I've read most of his books and they're very well written, researched, and tell a great story):

The Demon of Unrest: A Saga of Hubris, Heartbreak, and Heroism at the Dawn of the Civil War​

 

[Durty South Swamp]

Mark Milley