Bourbon and Booze

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by alcoholica, Nov 23, 2017.

  1. soflagator

    soflagator Senior Member
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    No idea if this is true or not, but a store owner recently told me that it was also being heavily affected by the Japanese demand for our whiskey. According to him, when the bourbon craze here started spilling over to Japanese whiskeys, we started importing a ton of their inventory, driving their price up domestically. So they looked for supply elsewhere, namely here, furthering the spike in demand and price of our own. And much of the ridiculous secondary market pricing is because it can still be be sold for a large profit over there.

    Again, I have no clue if that’s accurate, but it was an interesting viewpoint from someone on that side of things that at least made some sense.

    In general though, as you both point out, it’s gotten absolutely insane. And hype is so often all that is driving the market. Possibly the most disappointing drink I’ve ever had was a pour of Louis XIII. The only thing that I enjoyed about it was knowing that someone other than me had paid for it. Not a terrible cognac. But in the context of people falling all over themselves to get it, and paying thousands for an empty bottle...it was terrible.
     
    • GatorFL

      GatorFL Well-Known Member
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      There's always gonna be a booze of the day. Few years ago it was vodka. Then tequila. Then scotch. Now its bourbon. I guess gin is next.

      Funny thing is even with all my efforts, I really don't drink bourbon all that often. Maybe once a week. I've got a kegerator and there are several great breweries nearby so I always have a couple of kegs on tap. But most recently it has been red wine. We've been trying Casemates.com, I got in on the kickstarter so I get free shipping. We've been introduced to some fantastic wineries, mostly in Napa and Sonoma.
       
      • GatorFL

        GatorFL Well-Known Member
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        I went to a Japanese whiskey tasting last year. I was quite pleasantly surprised. They're more like scotches than bourbon but they definitely can make some good stuff.
         
        • soflagator

          soflagator Senior Member
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          I’ve had a few and they were solid. And they do have scotch characteristics, which is nice. But to be fair, I've also only had them out, which can skew things a bit. Sometimes setting has as much impact on our liking somthing as the food/drink we’re enjoying. Wine may be the biggest culprit in that regard. I had a wine in NY a few years back from a winery that only shipped to one location on the east coast. Spent days researching and found a way to get some (by the case) through Wine Exchange. First night I opened one, I immediately realized I had been swept up in the moment and that it had really just a been a beautiful dinner with my family that had capped off a really great day in the city. I could’ve probably had Sutter Home and loved it just as much.
           
          • alcoholica

            alcoholica I'm what Willis was talking about
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            So I can tell you it's not the Japanese. The Japanese and Australians were major factors in keeping bourbon around when everyone abandoned it domestically. Not saying the demand isn't high there, but I'm saying it's been high for decades, not any kind of sudden push.

            I keep hearing people say China and India. There may be some truth to that, but I think most store owners talk out of their asses. I'd also say that globally Scotch has more pull than Bourbon, especially somewhere like India where they have so many ties with England.
             
            • G8trwood

              G8trwood Well-Known Member
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              Been a fan of Russell’s for a while and as the price came down it became the “daily” bourbon. Just bought a bottle of their single barrel, very nice. Doing blind tests with my group of aging alcoholics, it was the preferred bourbon. Damn Booker has gotten harsh for my older arse. Threw in a Lagavulin just to mess with them ;)
               
              • alcoholica

                alcoholica I'm what Willis was talking about
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                Booker’s is a lot younger than it used to be. Usually closer to 6 y/o than 7 y/o. They used to be 8 y/o an up
                 
                • alcoholica

                  alcoholica I'm what Willis was talking about
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                  This might be interesting for us to try. Whatever spirits you drink, give us a list of some best buys and overrated bottles. Not great bourbons, but great for the money. I'll go first.

                  Best Values

                  Wild Turkey 101 - Low $20 range
                  Evan Williams Bottled in Bond - less than $20
                  Evan Williams 1783 - mid to low teens
                  Evan Williams Single Barrel - Low $20's
                  Elijah Craig when you can catch for mid $20's
                  Henry McKenna Bottled in Bond - if you can still find for $30, consistency has dropped as well
                  Weller Antique 107 if you can find for old retail of around $28
                  Knob Creek Single Barrel - around $40
                  Rare Breed - around $40-45
                  Eagle Rare - when you can find it for $30
                  Old Forester 100 - not quite ready to claim this one, but so far it's drinking above its price

                  Worst Values (overrated)

                  Blanton's - Highly polarizing, but to me and many others this one is high on the list
                  Woodford - many,many other bourbons are much better at $30 or less
                  Angel's Envy - Another polarizing bourbon, but for all the praise, it falls short for me
                  Any Woodford Special release except the Batch Proof
                  Maker's Mark
                   
                • GatorFL

                  GatorFL Well-Known Member
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                  My local Total Wine had several bottles of Willett Pot Still, I picked one up for my collection. Willett is not my favorite but the bottle it comes in, which looks like a pot still, is probably my favorite.
                   
                  • alcoholica

                    alcoholica I'm what Willis was talking about
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                    Everyone bags on Willett. I must've been fortunate with the bottle I bought because it was real tasty. That being said, they source their stuff and it's not the most consistent, so maybe I got lucky.

                    Love the bottle too. They only bottle I think I like more is the Old Fitz BiB's. The old Kentucky Spirits were cool too.
                     
                  • GatorFL

                    GatorFL Well-Known Member
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                    I also got a liter of the new highly regarded Old Forester Rye. $23 for a liter, even if it's not fantastic on its own I can make manhattans out of it.
                     
                    • alcoholica

                      alcoholica I'm what Willis was talking about
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                      Did the same thing. Haven’t tried it yet, but hear good things
                       
                    • -THE DUDE-

                      -THE DUDE- This is the year!!!

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                      New favorite of mine Balvenie Caribbean casks...I used to be a big rum drinker so the rum barrel aging is a nice add to the scotch

                      My great buy is the Costco scotch...$18 for a handle and is surprisingly solid. With 2 kids now 2 and under I need some good buys now and then so it’s my casual scotch go to
                       
                      • soflagator

                        soflagator Senior Member
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                        Bumping this thread.

                        Just saw the Balvenie Caribbean last week and was ready,lied to buy it. Sounds really good.

                        Ended up going with a known, Highland Park 12. The 18 is incredible but it’s one of the best 12’s on the market, imo. Good smoke and peat without being overpowering. Probably my favorite overall scotch.
                         
                        • Gator By Marriage

                          Gator By Marriage A convert to Gatorism
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                          Highland Park brings back fond memories. In 1993, shortly after Mrs. G & I got married, we moved to Cyprus for my job. As a former British colony Scotch was the preferred liquor not just for all the Brits (and there were a lot of them living there) but for the locals too. As it was expensive locally the Cypriots drank blended whisky, with Johnnie Walker Red being the overwhelming favorite. (A Cypriot friend of mine once told that if you give a Cypriot a bottle of Johnny Walker Red, you'll have a friend for life; give him a bottle of Johnny Walker Black and he'll kill for you.) While clearly not great whisky, it was my introduction to scotch and led to my learning about single malts. One afternoon I happened to be with some Brits at the O club on one of their military bases there, and they decided I needed to learn about good whisky. We started with the Glens (Fiddich, Livet, & Morangie), before having the ones I still drink to this day; MacAllan and Highland Park. My counterpart with the Brits was also a fan of Highland Park and on more than one occasion, I recall evenings sitting on his patio with a few others and a fresh bottle of Highland Park. He would open the bottle with a great flourish and throw the cap out into the darkness saying, "we won't be needing that." And we never did.
                           
                          • soflagator

                            soflagator Senior Member
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                            For best, I agree completely on Eagle Rare. Tried it for the first time about a month ago and it is very good, especially for that price range. Also on Elijah Craig. To me, in a world where many bourbons kind of all bleed together, it definitely stands out in terms of flavor. Not a fan of Knob Creek, personally. Considering it can now be had for under $40, I'd throw Basil Hayden in this category.

                            On the worst, yes, Woodford generally is very overrated. Makers is ok, but nothing to rave about. Both have done more with marketing than actual quality, imo. I don't like AE's bourbon, but do enjoy their rye. I could go either way on Blanton's. It's really solid at its base price, but shouldn't be hunted and bid up the way it often is. I think the Hudson Whiskey line is very overpriced, and actually just subpar all around. For $50, there are just so many other directions you could go and be much happier.
                             
                            • -THE DUDE-

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                              So you bumped the thread to pull a sike on my recommended buy?

                              :finger:
                               
                              • AuggieDosta

                                AuggieDosta I Don't Re Member
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                                Honestly, this list kinda shocks me.

                                I consider myself a drinker w/refined tastes and a modicum of knowledge on this subject but am really surprised by your list, especially the "Worst Values" part, and to how many people agree with you.

                                I am going to have to do more "research" on these.

                                Thanks for the list.
                                 
                              • Gator By Marriage

                                Gator By Marriage A convert to Gatorism
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                                Meh. First rule is to trust your own taste. If you really enjoy one of the brands Alky thinks is overrated, who is right? You of course. Unless Alky is drinking it then he’s right too! Buy what you like and can afford and you’ll always be happy. (Not meaning to discourage your plan for more research of course. After all, you need to be sure. )
                                 
                                • AuggieDosta

                                  AuggieDosta I Don't Re Member
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                                  :fistbump:
                                   

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